Originally Posted By: TAH
Well, this has been an very interesting discussion and I've learned a lot. Thanks to everyone who contributed so far.

To summarize my thoughts on some of the information presented here, I now believe that at some point, Heiser used a Randall stamp. Even though the shop says otherwise, these photos have made the case for me. The middle sheath and the one on the right are nearly identical. I won't list all the matching characteristics. IMO, they are obvious.

I now know that Heiser did indeed have the ability to use baby dot snaps as evident on the holsters. Not saying they were used on Randall sheaths, but Gaddis stating that Heiser didn't have the capability for baby dots just isn't true.



So to be clear, you are saying the center is HKL made and the one to the left?

I don't disagree, however, the ability to use the snap at this point doesn't really seem to be the issue any longer. I kinda questioned that statement myself as it isn't that difficult to use the snaps. Perhaps his statement is being taken out of context? There had to have been some conversation to that effect with Bo and/or Gary, so I am curious as to how his conclusion as printed came about.

We only see a few of that style (seem to be of different manufacturer than Johnson's) used by Hesier and overwhelmingly on holsters as you said with only one example on a sheath, and what appears to be a late 40's to 50's vintage. Apparently the snap type was not too popular(?) with Heiser as the glove type (both metal and brown button) sees predominate use through their involvement with RMK, with no bonafide (documented) example of it's use on a sheath supplied to RMK.

That being said, we still have to go on what I think is the crux of it and that is Maurice Johnson suggesting the change from brown button to baby dot to Bo and Gary Randall. This based on what he determined was an inferior snap - the brown button.

If you look at the photos supplied by Ron of the model 3 sheaths, and by Ron's own account, Heiser/HKL used the small painted glove type snap when they ran out of brown buttons in the early 60's, not the baby dot. Also not the keeper placement and hole punch for center placement.

Originally Posted By: BoBlade
Early 60's!
1. During the time when the shop and Heiser ran out of BB snaps for the 2nd time.
2. Precisely when the shop and Heiser ran out of the small brown substitute snaps.
3. Precisely when Heiser switched over from stamping their logo to the horizontal Randall logo.
4. Just before the next shipment of BB snaps arrived.

A "perfect confluence" of happenstances. This period only lasted a few days.

Give me a tough one next time grin


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