Nearly 32 years working on TC barrels and I'm still finding some unanswered questions about the accuracy of the TC guns.
What follows will be more of interest to the more technically minded shooters. However, as always, I attempt to make the techy things very understandable AND easily applied by the average casual shooter so he can readily get his money's worth from the interchangeable barrel systems he paid good money for, but is all to often disappointed by.
Disappointments are not fun. Success IS! And that is what we bust our butts to help you achieve, day in and day out..... typically a 12 hour plus day for me, 7/7, including holidays. A lot of effort is applied on your behalf, so please DO take advantage of it. Do some serious reading, wrap your brain around what is presented here and on our website, and you will make the interchangeable barrel systems work for you like you expect them to. Unfortunately, the factories are more into making parts. For most of us, "good" is simply not good enough. Do some homework before you grab the phone or email us for help.
Soap box mode off....
A little background refresher, briefly.....
the Apex is made like the other CVA designs where the downward movement of the barrel into the frame is stopped/determined by the end of the barrel hitting solidly on the breechface. Ie, there is no "seat" at the bottom of the barrel as in the Encore.
In contrast, the Encore has and appears to be best served by its seat inside the frame where the barrel comes to a stop making contact on the sides of the barrel, just above the lug, and very near the extreme breech end of the barrel. Look at your Encore barrels and you will see this wear pattern.
OK, here is where I am going with this. David White has been experimenting with the Apex converting .308 Win. type chambers to use the RIMMED .307 Win. brass. This would apply in the case of the Apex to .308 Win. and 7mm-08 barrels specifically. BUT, and here's the point, he is cutting the rim counterbore in the end of the barrel about .003" too shallow such that the case rim sticks out of the barrel about .003" and gives a very solid contact on the breech face. Results are much improved accuracy from taking the last little bit of "play" out of the connection to the frame.
From previous experiments stubbing barrels, he has applying the same interference contact or more, but between the barrel tenon and the breech face. Ie, he has the new barrel screwed into the original barrel and the new barrel projecting out the back of the original by .003" to .006". In so doing he says he has routinely taken his "stubbed" barrels from 2-3" groups down to a ragged hole.
This approach goes above and beyond what factory tolerances require for complete interchangeability of barrels. It gets more into the finer, custom control of tolerances not possible when all barrels made must fit all frames made, regardless of exactly where the hinge pin hole in the frame is located.
You will lose some interchangeability from frame to frame, but this beats the disappointment of a 2-3" gun you paid good money for.
Back to the Encore and application of the same idea.
With the Encore barrel seating at the bottom of the barrel, it is not dependent on barrel to breech contact like the Apex, so whether the barrel touches the firing pin bushing or not, if properly fitted, the barrel locks down ok.
However, we have found it appears to be that lack of SOLID contact between barrel and firing pin bushing that causes the barrel to "bump" on the firing pin bushing in a random manner that scatters shots, while in contrast:
1) barrels with a significant barrel-to-frame gap shoot well, and
2) barrels that DO hit solidly on the firing pin bushing also shoot well.
It appears to be that the in between range where the contact is not really solid is where the problem lies.
SOOOOOOO, what I am suggesting is this.
If your ammo comes DEAD flush with or slightly below the end of the barrel, experiment with shimming the firing pin bushing forward .001" at a time until you hit a sweet spot where the barrel is hitting hard on the firing pin bushing AND you can still readily cock the hammer.
If you get the firing pin bushing out too far, the barrel will not close far enough to permit the hammer to cock. You can also monitor things by inking the tops of the locking bolts with no shims and noting how far up the slope of the locking bolts the ink is marred, then watching to see if that amount of travel is being reduced to something less than about half way up the slope of the locking bolts as you increase shims. When you start seeing less and less travel of the locking bolts into the frame, it will be due to the firing pin bushing stopping the travel of the barrel ..... what you want to achieve.
I have stated many times that cartridge case shoulders DO in fact collapse a very measurable amount when the firing pin drives the case forward in the chamber while the case rims do not. Thus I feel it is better to rely on a rimmed case for the forward stopping point in the chamber instead of the fragile shoulder that tends to cushion the impact of the firing pin. And, applying the positive force on the end of the barrel appears to be an important improvement in accuracy potential. I am suggesting applying the same positive, interference contact with the Encore breech as David is doing with the Apex and also incorporating the rim in the Encore..... either by cutting the rim counterbore shallow so the case rim hits solidly on the firing pin bushing or cutting it deep enough there is no interference on the case head, but then shimming the firing pin bushing to hit hard on the end of the barrel.
Either approach should work.
Having a rim counterbore cut in the end of the barrel is not an issue. We do it routinely, as does David White, and anyone with basic lathe skills can lathe bore the rim counterbore.
Setting .308 Win. type chambers up for using .307 Win. brass is best, but it DOES reduce the powder capacity a bit.
You gain case strength significantly, BUT you must back loads off a bit due to the lesser case volume.
IF you don't mind lopping .444 Marlin cases back about .175", you can keep your basic original powder capacity and still have good, stout brass equal to or stronger than the other .308 Win. type cases.
.444's neck down to .30 cal. in a .308 Win. size die very readily, BUT first cull out those .444s with dings and dents in the case mouth. Many of these will propagate into lengthwise creases in the case neck that usually split when fired. By and large you should expect to lose no more than about 10 such cases per 100. Annealing first helps a little, but not much, and normally is not necessary.
With either case, be sure to watch your loaded case neck diameter. The .307 Win. brass is thicker to start with, and both .307s and .444s thicken further when necked down.
While the barrel is set up for cutting the rim counterbore, the chamber neck diameter can also be cut larger. Normally it is not necessary for .308 Win., MAY be necessary for 7mm-08 chambers, and is most certain to be required for .243 Win. and .260 Rem. Going UP in diameter for .338 Federal or .358 Win. should be no problem at all. However, always do be conscious of neck diameter. Compare fired case neck diameter to loaded round neck diameter and be sure you have some difference between the two. .003" difference is generally a safe clearance but can be as little as .001" if you pay closer attention and watch for any loaded rounds that eat up that clearance.
The above leaves out all the longer rimless rounds like .30/06, .270 Win., .280 Rem. where rimmed brass is not readily available, but I would still experiment with shimming the firing pin bushing out to be tight on the end of the barrel.
Shimming the firing pin bushing to hit solidly on the end of the barrel should work for most all belted mag chambers, though it may be best to bring the end of the barrel down closer to dead flush with the case head since the belt cut in the chamber is generally on the generous side. Use your Bellm Headspace Indicator to measure how far below the end of the barrel your case heads fall, then decide.
Ie, if the case head is .003" below the end of the barrel, you can minimize case stretch by taking .002" off the end of the barrel, leaving .001" headspace when the firing pin bushing is shimmed to hit hard on the end of the barrel. You will minimize case stretch, improve ignition, tighten up the barrel to frame relationship, and should expect to see the mags settle in to better accuracy.
In addition to the tight fit at the end of the barrel, of course over the last year I have done a LOT of locking bolt refitting, and as I rework various barrels with loose fit between locking bolts and the slot in the lug v. how they fit under the frame's locking table I see a lot of slop in the lockup that has to undermine accuracy. Somewhere down the line we will have to put a page on the website detailing locking bolt fit. In the meantime we have been taking in a fair number of refitting jobs so Josh and I both have a lot of experience in this area.
GREAT NEWS FOR CVA APEX OWNERS AND PROSPECTIVE OWNERS:
CVA just announced that since the Apex is still quite new and there are not enough of them in circulation to make it practical for dealers to stock replacement barrels right now, for 2011 CVA is
1) going customer direct, AND
2) dropping the barrel prices WAY down to $195.95 for muzzle loader barrels and $219.95 for centerfire barrels.
THAT'S $220 FOR A STAINLESS STEEL, FLUTED BARREL! HECKUVA DEAL!
Order direct or give Kurt a call and he can help you as well.
Remember, we now have oversize hinge pins for the CVA Apex rifles:
http://www.bellmtcs.com/store/index.php?cid=597Speaking of deals on barrels, we have the following barrels ready to ship.
4- .30/06 blued 24" $210.95
2- .30-/06 blued 24" "scratch & dent" barrels. Bergara markings faded, mottled bluing on the shank of the barrel, minor scratches/marring from handling, etc. ($30 off is $180.95
1- .243 Win. ss 24" $240.95
1- .243 Win. ss 24" "SELECT" Mike's Pick $265.95
1- .308 Win. blued 24" $210.95
1-.358/.356 Win. ss 24" reduced to $500.00
(2) .30-06 SS 24" $240.95
(2) .30-06 Blued 24" $210.95
(1) .270 SS 24" $240.95
Plus $15 UPS Shipping with tracking provided.
All barrels inspected, tuned, and ready to go. Just call Kurt to complete your order. He's been doing a great job with barrel orders and has a new phone line dedicated to questions, parts & barrel sales. Give him a call at 1.970.314.9901
MUZZLE BRAKES FOR CHOKED "SHOT" BARRELS:
Take a look at what was done to the .44 Mag. barrel pictured at the top of this page on the Free Trading Post:
http://www.bellmtcs.com/store/index.php?cid=563What someone has done is make a muzzle brake for one of the old "Hot Shot" barrels where the tenon for the brake replaces the choke tube, and the brake is made the same diameter as the barrel.
This particular barrel of course permits removing the brake and re-installing the choke tube for shot use. The 10" Contender .44 Mag barrels are not the most pleasant barrel to shoot, but with the brake added should be quite manageable.
The one pictured on the site has the internal choke, but the threads for the prior vintage of externally choked octagon barrels can be just as readily utilized in the same manner.
I have never seen this done before while, as I noted on the ad, it should be as obvious as a train wreck. You might contact the seller to see who did the work and if the gunsmith who did it is interested in doing them for others. If not, then perhaps I can steer you do someone who will. Right now it is not something I have room to take on.
The old octagon barrels have been regarded as pretty much useless, due in large part to the extra recoil from these light barrels, especially with rounds like .44 Mag.
In addition to recoil reduction, the added weight of a brake added to the barrel should make for a steadier hold and more accurate shooting.
Phone Policy:
Kurt is now handling all of my incoming calls so I can get more shop time in. If you need to reach me, give him a number & best time for me to call you.
Phone conversations are great, and I enjoy them as much as you folks do, but it is time to "pass the torch" to Kurt and let the old man cloister himself away making metal chips. His new dedicated phone number is 1.970.314.9901
All the best!
Mike Bellm
www.bellmtcs.com
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