Gary -

This is the best I can do at this time.

http://www.rmkcollector.com/archives/the-randall-collector/a-johnson-sheath-footnote-part-iii/

Gary,

Based on the timeline I previously noted: Gary "discovers" Johnson in the spring / summer of 1962, it takes Johnson a minimum of 6 months to come up to speed and baby dots being introduced in late '62 or early '63

1. I don't think Gary was in error on his timing to discover Johnson.
2. I don't think it took any less than 6 months for Johnson to get up to speed from scratch (As a sheathmaker).
3. IMO the only possibility that the window opened up enough for Johnson to make a significant number of brown button sheaths is that the timing of the baby dot introduction that Gaddis mentions in his book is wrong, and the actual introduction was sometime later.

best,

Model 4-6, scribed on backside 3-11-61

I remember that knife. If that doesn't look like a Johnson front and back, I don't know what does.

I agree that this is a obvious Johnson. I think only a very few would qualify as a possible Heiser. I'm busy this week and next but if this thread is still alive I will try to get some more examples of possible Heiser's with the Randall stamp. I'll also look for some SS stamped knives and see if I have any Heiser's with those. That would date it at 1963. I don't think so but I'll look.
So with Mike's knife and potentially others that would date Johnsons involvement before 1962 I think it is safe to say that he was on the scene before traditional thinking had it.

Gary

Gary,
Agreed on the pre 1962 as plausible for Johnson involvement. ...and, in all good defense of GTR, it is quite easy to be off a small bit of time when recalling all of this stuff.
I have spoken with "Crutch" as well as "Rigid54" and I find the possibility of this Michigan maker possible. I have promised (and I'm not a snitch) to not reveal anyone (who does not want to be named) in this thread...BUT...(I know: That word again) this guy Howard did exist and the "stories" hold pretty good water! And the person telling the story is a good friend, good customer and collector.
....just sayin', Capt. Chris

Cap,

I think there is a good chance that GTR aligned his discovery of Johnson with a corresponding event event his life. If so, that would give the specific year more credibility. Would you mind asking him the next time you two talk? Thanks.

Regarding Rigid54: He may be a good friend, good customer and collector (To you), but to us he was an unknown entity that jumped right into the middle of the discussion claiming The "story" is bullshit at best and confusion at least! IMO not exactly the best way to influence friends and lead into his own hypothesis! I can understand him not having any more information about Clayton Howard than he gave us, but he spoke of "hallmarks", "interesting period differences" and "particular attributes" of the Howard sheaths that he did have knowledge of by virtue of seeing the sheath in question and being involved in the discussion with Rhett, but no response was forthcoming when Joe questioned him about these.

I don't mind (In fact I love) discussing Randall history with anyone, but if you're going to put forth a theory, then put some meat on the bones or keep the skeleton in the closet.

Respectfully,

I placed a call to Gary yesterday and spoke to Michael Randall instead. It took me about 3-4 minutes before Michael told me it was "Michael"...not "GTR". Man: Do those 2 sound alike!
Anyway: The stock sale is coming up and I don't want to bother GTR (Or anyone at the shop) right now. I called to ask about any recognition of Clayton Howard or recollection. I agree Ron. Good discussions about Randall knives, and it's associated history are always welcome by me as well.
...to be continued, Capt. Chris

The fact that anyone can come to this site and post anonymously still remains the biggest problem with the participation and content. The owner/mods should have viable contact information for members. That would stop the grenade throwers.


Michael -

There are more than a few knives marked such as yours, some blade etched, that would lend some merit to MJ being involved earlier than conventional wisdom allowed.

I deferred to GTR's memory (as stated in Gaddis) in my last essay as being the most accurate time although I was told otherwise by an individual that worked in the shop from 1960 to 1966. I have never asked GTR personally, just don't want to bother him with this stuff. Maybe it is time.

Ron -

I DON'T understand why Rigid 54 doesn't have any more information. In fact, it is stunning he DOESN'T have any information the way he touts his position and claims any other is bull feces. For someone that apparently believes HIS "story" is the correct one, there is nothing to support it. This smells of wanting to believe something so badly that you begin to believe it is true. Kinda like all the folks that thought that Obama would be/is a good president. We all know an individual like this.

I will net it out. We have a (as in one) "conversation" between three people, one a purveyor who admittedly was not a history buff, the other a "collector", and the third mystery man allegedly a collector also. My question, was there a Quija board present at this meeting?

In any case, the subject sheaths were NOT made by one "Clayton Howard".

We need a "Like" option on this forum.