Thanks Tom. I've always enjoyed the Astro. Great historical part of Randall history.

I'm from Tampa Florida, my dad worked on power plants over on the east coast, and we watched the launches of Gemini and Apollo rockets.

Man, you ain't lived if you didn't see a Saturn 5 liftoff!! We had a travel trailer that my dad used for work. Our home place was in Tampa. In the summers we would go spend with him, as the park was right on the the Indian River across from the Cape , along A1A, south of Titusville. We would just walk down to the river to watch the liftoffs. The night shots were magnificent. Never forget it. The VAB ( vehicle assembly building) was prominent from our vantage point too.
I attended a new, "modern" school just opened that year in Titusville, Apollo Elementary. Named after the space program. I say modern, because it was special in that it had no regular windows, just long narrow ones to let light in. This school was air conditioned! Unique for the mid 60's.

This is one reason I have a passion for Randall knives, and yes guys, for the sheaths too :-)

Thanks Tom,....I actually hadn't seen that thread before. I also never saw any of the pictures of some of the really old ones before. Some of those knives even look a bit "rusty" and beat up,.....almost like they were carbon steel? (I thought this was always a SS model?)

I remember reading somewhere that the Randall hated making this model, do to some construction details. Possible the cutting out of the handle, or working with the SS double hilt. Stainless IS a b***h to work with!

Anyway,.....neat stuff for sure.

Joe, when I read about Bushcraft subjects, many times I think back years ago to the writings of Bradford Angier. He lived in Alaska and routinely did a lot of the bushcraft things that you described in your post,(daily).

So my question is, Joe: What is wrong with the Bradford Angier Knife (Model #5) offered by RMK? It seemed to work well for a guy who wrote a lot of books on living in the wild country.

Tom Vaught

http://www.knifetalkforums.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=93413&page=all

I appreciate the reply..... and I was being a bit leading. I was trying to understand what you were doing in the field that I have not done with a small Randall or several other knives.

Everyone has preferences, but like Tom said, a #5-6, or an 8-4 will take care of most anything I have had need to do. I also always have a SAC or a multitool.

To each their own.

Thanks,

Tom, that's a good question and I'll be as upfront as I can to answer.

The last 5 years or so have seen a huge leap in design and availability of dedicated Bushcrafting knives. These choices were not available back when Bradford Angier Knife chose a knife. I assume he used the larger Model #5, with thicker 1/4" stock 5" blade.

It has been shown over and over that a very efficient knife design for bushcrafting duties will have a 1/8 inch thick blade or a hair more or less. A straight spine, with drop or spear point also being popular, .....and the most favored grind being Scandi. This grind works wood well, and is easy to sharpen in the field. I have a Blind Horse Knives GNS in Saber Grind 01 steel that works very well also,...4.5" blade as I recall. (blades 4.5 inch to 5" are popular)

The blade sides on bushcraft knives are usually flat stock removal blades (not forged),... 01 tool steel being a favorite. Ease of sharpening, holding a keen edge, and great slicing ability trumps rust resistance,....even for heavy woods duty.

Often today they have a 90 degree sharp edge flat ground spine for ease in striking a fire steel and scraping bark shavings for kindling.

There will be no false top edges ground in (reduces efficiency when batoning), and no finger choil on these with the grind ending as close to the handle as possible to make use of the higher leverage offered in that part of the blade. Usually there is no finger guard or very minimal, and a FULL TANG the norm. Often there are 2 or 3 fish eye bolts securing micarta or G10 handle slabs, with epoxy used to keep moisture out from getting behind the slabs and rusting the 01 steel. Comfortable hand filling simple shaped handles are the norm, to reduce blisters as they are more likely from extended time periods working in wood.

Unfortunately, Randall does not offer any knife with most of these dedicated features important to serious bushcrafters. These designs are best executed on flat blade stock through stock removal,.....no forgings. As you know, only a few Randall's are made without forgings,....the Model 10 a popular series.

I suspect Bradford Algier also carried a small axe or hatchet to complement the knife he had available back then, ....for ease of doing some of the chores a dedicated bushcrafting knife is now often called upon to do as a stand alone tool.

Lots of the older Mora knives were great cutters for many of the woods tasks, but the blades were often thinner and for battoning to split wood flexed a bit more than I like. I own a vintage Mora and that's what I notice.

Anyway, in today's Randall lineup my altered Model 26 Pathfinder with thicker than average stag handle and reduced hilt, with style 25 handle (but without any leather washers) is close.

As you know I started this thread showing the thinning of the blade thickness and blending of the side grind lines on that model 26. It still has a finger choil, but is shorter than most. The 01 tool steel makes this a great cutter, and works pretty well for most bushcrafting chores, but is still a bit short to batton and split firewood. The cut down tang makes me leary to even try.

My altered Model 28 has the more solid full tang going for it, but I still have to optimise the edge,....the 25 degree edge angle I'll reduce to either 20 degrees, or convex over.

Anyway, until you have had the opportunity to actually work with a dedicated bushcrafting knife, it may be hard to understand why these things are important. But they are.....



I do have a nice 8-4, newer style blade shape but an older example with a JRB sheath. It's a great cutter in 01 steel, and I like the main grind to the edge. I carry it in the city sometimes for my EDC rotation,....in one of the Sullivan's High Ride sheaths I had made for it. (sent 4 Randall's in at one time for these sheaths)

But the smaller blade length and upper cutting edge prohibit any battoning. ( I HAD to lightly dull off due to New York State laws :-( The usual Randall finger choil loses some useful blade, and I'm just not sure how much of a tang is in there on the stag handle. So I use it at times for food prep,....were slices very well.

By the way, I never said most things could not be done with a Randall, but because the design elements in the knife's construction were not optimized for LONG periods of wood cutting chores it will take much longer usually. In an emergency we use what we have with us. But when going out for long time periods in the woods, you'll get more done in less time with a tool specific to the task.

I actually looked at the model 5-5, but the 1/4 inch blade stock nixed that for me. The smaller version 5-4 comes in 3/16" stock,....better, ....but only 4 inch blade is not enough for me, especially with a finger choil taking some of the useable blade. If they made the 5-5 in 3/16" stock , i would probably get one, as the straighter grind is better suited for outdoors use,.....but the answer would be "no", of course.

Were that not true, there wouldn't have been a need for any of the Randall skinners. A basic sportsman knife will get the job done,.....but will take more time and care to get the same result. Nor would taking that short skinning blade into a fight in a war zone,......where a Model 1 is a much better choice.

cheers,
Joe T

Joe,

Good post! I'm not sure about today's knives, but the blade on my early 70s 5-5 measures exactly 3/16" at the ricasso and slowly tapers to the point. After all the forging and finishing, it's not even close to the 1/4" stock that is described in the catalog.

Might be worth checking out.

Tom

I've noticed some of that on older Randall's,.....and I was pleasantly surprised my model 1-7 Kit knife had a wonderful tapering in thickness down to the tip. I've even seen some older examples on some models that came back then without finger choils,.... that are always on them today. (so it can be done) I'm keeping an eye out for one needing some serious rehab at a fair price,.....as even I can't bring myself to work over a well preserved piece of Randall history.

I'm not sure if having the rectangular full length tang available was how all kit knives were offered,....as this is my only contact with one. But I gotta say it just HAS to be stronger in keeping the handle intact, than depending on a thinned down threaded connection. As I outlined in my work on the knife, the added 1/8" stainless pin I added through the unusual stainless pommel make this a brute I think.

I actually made the seller what I thought was a fair offer at $365.00 w/shipping on this well used Model 20. I pointed out it's not quite a model 20 now anyway, but I guess he places more value on it's Vietnam history than I do.

It's been listed for sale at $500 for quite awhile, and he would't take less than what he says was the $425.00 he paid. It appears to me much of the blade edge has been worn or ground away, making for a knife where the rest of the finger choil could easily be removed and a new edge added. I was also planning on flattening the spine a little into more of a slight drop point. Too much belly on a a knife and it tends to slip off at the end cuts when prepping wood.

A few pics:

Joe, Thanks for the reply to my question.

I have posted many times that I am a knife "user guy".

I don't call it Bushcraft, I just call it knowing how to survive, be it in the southwest (where I spent a lot of time) or in heavy forest or jungle environments.

I honestly never tried to do it with ONE knife.

I could always find material to start a fire (using my hands) without the need for batoning. Batoning makes noise and sometimes that is not a good idea. Sound carries a long way in the desert. I have always carried a larger knife and a smaller knife (minimum).

I have read some of the EDC forums over the years and some of those guys are carrying 50 pounds of gear in a pack and another 100 pounds in their truck. I am a firm believer in being prepared but like the military says, the plan went out the door 15 seconds after the whistle blew.

Ever think about something like this: It can carry the typical bushcraft knives you mentioned.

http://www.grizzly-outdoors.com/piggyback-grizzly-elite-sheath/

Tom V.

EDC Guys love to customize.

For woods use that would work,......but as I like to carry a decent sized knife as a discrete EDC I prefer one of my leather shoulder harness rigs under a 2nd shirt or jacket. My Zero Tolerance 0100 fixed blade military rig would look similar carried on my hip and leg,.....but I'd also be stopped every time when worn in the city.

......of course I could rig up a shoulder carry leather strap that would carry it discretely.

However, other than one of my Mora's, I don't see an option for any of my main carry knives.

Hello Joe. I have been a little hesitant to post in this thread but hope you will understand that my question is not intended to be critical in any way. I appreciated your description of the "bushcraft" style knife and definitely learned from it. My reaction, however, is that there are a number of makers, such as ESEE and Busse who, if I am understanding what you are describing, make quality knives in the bushcraft style. Randall, on the other hand, does not as far as I can tell make a bushcraft style knife as you describe it. So, why not look to another maker for such a knife rather than modify a Randall? You really seem to enjoy what you're doing so maybe that's the answer and if so that's wonderful. Just curious. Thanks.