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#149055 - 08/28/16 10:02 PM Re: This Old Randall * [Re: Doug74]
Wally Offline
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Registered: 07/08/06
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Tune let me handle the Zach at BLADE, (thanks Tune) and as ungainly as it looks, when held as intended it feels very comfortable, and remarkably "useful".
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#149064 - 08/29/16 06:42 AM Re: This Old Randall [Re: Wally]
crutchtip Offline
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Wally, very good point and the topic of conversation between mitchell and me. The knife is "comfortable" in the upside down carry mode as intended for fighting, but not so much for utilitarian use. That is why we think that Bo did not make many (maybe 10 or less?) in that configuration, but probably more in the vein of the one pictured in Gaddis. It has a conventional stag handle.

Mitchell's knife was made June 1942, and you have to remember Bo switched to leather almost exclusively in November 1942. We know he had made only 28 knives by 7 January 1943, so his total production during that period was very small.
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#149071 - 08/29/16 09:51 AM Re: This Old Randall [Re: Doug74]
BoBlade Offline
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I have an opinion that differs just a bit. First of all, there was a difference in the diameter of the pins that coincided with different timeframes. Prior to the end of WWII, the pins were a larger diameter than those post war. Here are some examples:






There were (Of course) some exceptions. Most notably were the carvers. I have not seen any with the larger diameter pin in any timeframe. Another data point is John'a prewar Hunter:




Post war there weren't many two pins at all, and none with the larger diameter pin. Those few that have turned up have the small stamp if they were Model 3's or Model 4's. They are also typically paired with a Heiser sheath with oversized throat rivets. Here's one example and Joe's 3-6 as depicted is another. Bottom line is that I think two pins went away just a few months after Bo brought out his new line of knives in the summer of 1945.


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#149081 - 08/29/16 01:09 PM Re: This Old Randall [Re: BoBlade]
Tattoo Bill Offline
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Great information as always Ron!
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#149085 - 08/29/16 02:10 PM Re: This Old Randall [Re: BoBlade]
crutchtip Offline
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Originally Posted By: BoBlade
I have an opinion that differs just a bit. First of all, there was a difference in the diameter of the pins that coincided with different timeframes. Prior to the end of WWII, the pins were a larger diameter than those post war. Here are some examples:

There were (Of course) some exceptions. Most notably were the carvers. I have not seen any with the larger diameter pin in any timeframe. Another data point is John'a prewar Hunter:

Post war there weren't many two pins at all, and none with the larger diameter pin. Those few that have turned up have the small stamp if they were Model 3's or Model 4's. They are also typically paired with a Heiser sheath with oversized throat rivets. Here's one example and Joe's 3-6 as depicted is another. Bottom line is that I think two pins went away just a few months after Bo brought out his new line of knives in the summer of 1945.



I think you are saying the exact same thing. As I stated, I don't think the two pins lasted too long after wars end. Do I know if RMK difinitively stopped the regular practice say in October of 1945 or perhaps February 1946? No, no one does. Could we err on the side of being earlier rather than later? Probably. I do know I would never say never with RMK. All we can say with reasonable certainty is it apparently went the way of the dinosaurs as a regular practice not too long after the war.
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#149160 - 08/30/16 08:29 PM Re: This Old Randall [Re: crutchtip]
Wally Offline
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Originally Posted By: crutchtip
The knife is "comfortable" in the upside down carry mode as intended for fighting, but not so much for utilitarian use. That is why we think that Bo did not make many (maybe 10 or less?) in that configuration, but probably more in the vein of the one pictured in Gaddis.


The stag grip of Mitchell's Zach has only 3 finger grooves, since the intended grip places the forefinger over the "teardrop" shaped quillion. Is it the only known example of a model one (if calling it a model one is correct, I think it is) with only a three finger grip?
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#149173 - 08/30/16 09:49 PM Re: This Old Randall [Re: Wally]
crutchtip Offline
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The model one as we know it had not yet been given the designation. Read Gaddis about the Zach and the history that brought about the "model 1".

Mitchell's fighter is a model unto itself. Did I say read Gaddis?
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#149177 - 08/30/16 10:11 PM Re: This Old Randall [Re: crutchtip]
Wally Offline
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Pre model one? Prototype, Zach, 1st fighter, I can live with any of 'em. Back to the fingergrips, have you (or anyone, for that matter) ever seen a fighter with a 3 finger grip? I guess it's important to me because I think the Zacharias knives, (ordered by the Lt. himself)
are the only ones ever made in that configuration, that physically demonstrates the designers' original intentions. One of those features (the relief in the spine, directly forward of the hilt) is still found on today's fighters. Maybe I see it as a "DNA marker" for the bloodline.

Added text... Reading Gaddis is a must, I noticed mention of an owners initials being marked in the butt of a pre-war carving knife that Bo gifted to someone. It's the only place in print I know of mentioning initials marked in the butt of a grip before the pics of the two known Zachs showed up.


Edited by Wally (08/30/16 10:17 PM)
Edit Reason: added text
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#149185 - 08/30/16 10:49 PM Re: This Old Randall [Re: Wally]
crutchtip Offline
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Registered: 11/16/05
Posts: 2851
The only one is Zacahrias.
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#149187 - 08/30/16 11:08 PM Re: This Old Randall [Re: crutchtip]
Wally Offline
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This fighter, (pic stolen from BoBlade) it would have been made between July and October of 1942?
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