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#158965 - 04/06/17 12:37 PM Re: Help Identify Randall Model [Re: Windsor]
rfcarlin Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 06/08/16
Posts: 451
Loc: New York
Please permit me to share some thoughts on what strikes me as being “the elephant in the room” regarding the discussion on this thread.

Nothing in this comment is, nor is it intended to be, legal advice. Nothing in this comment is, nor is it intended to be, an accusation, allegation or assertion of any crime and/or any malfeasance or impropriety.

Has any consideration been given to the potential ramifications of the pictured knife being confirmed as one of the “raspy voice dude” or similarly described blades? If so confirmed, then it may be possible that the knife could, depending upon the law of the state/local jurisdiction, be classified as stolen property. Such a classification could potentially give rise to both criminal and civil law concerns.

From a criminal law perspective, under the penal code of most states, possession of what is alleged or known to be stolen property may result in criminal charges/allegations being filed (which is certainly not the same as a conviction, but who needs the time, expense and grief?). Whether this could occur depends upon numerous factors, including, among others, whether the possessor knew or knows that the property was stolen, and the possessor’s intent in taking possession of the property. The laws of the state/local jurisdiction should be reviewed, or a local attorney should be consulted, to determine potential concerns regarding any particular circumstances.

From a civil law perspective, under the common or commercial law of most states, RMK, as the original owner of the stolen blades, retains its ownership interest in them, and has the right to recover its previously stolen property. This is expressed in the legal rules "Nemo dat quod non habet" ("He who hath not, cannot give") and "Nemo plus iuris ad alium transferre potest quam ipse habet" (“No one can transfer more right to another than he has himself”). Translations/definitions from Black's Law Dictionary. By way of example, consider the lawsuits filed to recover art and other personal property stolen/looted by the Nazis during WWII and the Holocaust. These recovery lawsuits were often filed by the original owners (or their descendants) under these, or similar, laws/rules/legal concepts.

In short, these civil laws/rules mean that a thief has no valid title or right in, or to, what he stole, and so he cannot sell or transfer valid title to the item. Conversely, a buyer of a stolen item obtains physical possession only, and does not purchase ownership title or right in or to the item. Put another way, the buyer can't buy what the seller never had to sell (which for stolen goods is valid title or ownership right). These rules usually apply even if the buyer is an 'innocent' purchaser (also known as a "bona fide" purchaser), meaning one who doesn't know that the item was stolen, or that the seller had no right to claim ownership of the item. Many states/jurisdictions provide for exceptions to these rules for a bona fide purchaser, often providing him/her recourse against the seller of the item (though usually not against the original 'rightful' owner from whom the property was stolen). Again, the laws of the state/local jurisdiction should be reviewed, or a local attorney consulted, to determine potential concerns regarding any particular circumstances.

While I appreciate the knowledge and information shared on this thread, given these circumstances and the possible ramifications, certain comments made in a public forum discussion may not be the wisest course of action.

Just some food for thought...

Bob
_________________________
Bob Carlin
rfcarlin@hotmail.com
RKCC #622

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#158966 - 04/06/17 01:17 PM Re: Help Identify Randall Model [Re: rfcarlin]
desert.snake Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 09/25/13
Posts: 1161
Loc: the other side of the earth
My friend bought an apartment, a few years later it turned
out that the seller fraudulently took possession
of the documents for the apartment (having processed
the psychotropic substances of the real owner and
received his signature). As a result, the apartment was
seized and my friend is forced to live with relatives.
But he was not arrested, since he did not know that the
apartment was stolen - this big problem.

In this case, I do not see any problems.
I think the following way.

RMK was looking for these blades via police,
and is there a complete list of them with a description
(or photo) so can accurately determine what exactly
they were stolen?

If can not documentably determine that this is a stolen
blade, then we can say that it's just a modified
by an unknown person blade # 26 and not assembled
in the store.
That is, it is not subject to withdrawal,
but the guarantee does not apply to it.

It's just my 2 pennies smile
_________________________
Si vis pacem, para bellum

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#158967 - 04/06/17 03:08 PM Re: Help Identify Randall Model [Re: Larry Ducati]
Larry Ducati Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 03/27/17
Posts: 47
Loc: Phoenix AZ
After speaking directly with Scott at Randall Made Knives, I am convinced this knife is in fact made from a blade stolen from RMK, and finished by someone else. He shared with me characteristics that he saw that identified it as such, and some of the background to the story.
My voice is not raspy, and I have never been to Florida. My intent was never to pass this knife off as something it was not. That is why I did not offer it for sale, but asked for input on what model it was, on a Randall forum. Turns out it was part of a theft years ago. RMK does not wish the knife returned to them, as much time has passed since the theft.
Since the blade itself is genuine stock and of high quality, Scott suggested having it re-handled by Behring, to make it unique, and no longer something that can deceive others by being represented as a Randall Made Knife. I will look into that, and maybe have a truly special knife.
Thanks to Scott and all who helped this thread along.

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#158968 - 04/06/17 03:19 PM Re: Help Identify Randall Model [Re: Larry Ducati]
RamKingJC Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 09/12/15
Posts: 3085
THAT is a perfect solution!!!! James and Grant will set you up with a very unique package!
_________________________
James Caruso
RKCC #CM008
rugermark2jc@gmail.com

"First comes smiles, then lies. Last is gunfire."

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#158970 - 04/06/17 04:35 PM Re: Help Identify Randall Model [Re: RamKingJC]
Tracer Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 10/29/16
Posts: 153
OP did the right thing.

The James Gang will do right by you and the blade stock. Post pics when they do!
_________________________
Mark
Massachusetts
NRA Life Member
Webley Collector

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#158971 - 04/06/17 04:45 PM Re: Help Identify Randall Model [Re: Tracer]
JE6245 Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 01/02/14
Posts: 1064
Loc: Tallahassee FL
Very cool. Well done.
_________________________
Jim E.

“If you don’t know where you are going, you might wind up someplace else.” – Yogi Berra

Me 2020

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#158973 - 04/06/17 05:04 PM Re: Help Identify Randall Model [Re: JE6245]
W Polidori Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 02/09/16
Posts: 5791
Loc: Central New York
Larry,

Scott has a great idea to have Behring Made do a re-handle on your knife. It certainly will turn out great whatever you decide "but" I have an offer that might interest you. Lets turn a couple of wrongs into a right. Grant Cunningham at BMK has a piece of my Fossil Walrus Ivory that I'll donate should you wish to turn this into a showstopper. The handle will need to be trimmed down some to fit this blade, let them work out the details. You have other options to deal with them as well.
Grant won't be back until early next week from the Oregon show. You are free to contact him if you want to proceed. It would keep your cost down and you won't be disappointed. This is totally your call and under no obligation. Best wishes.


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_________________________
Warren

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#158974 - 04/06/17 05:33 PM Re: Help Identify Randall Model [Re: W Polidori]
Larry Ducati Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 03/27/17
Posts: 47
Loc: Phoenix AZ
Thank you W Polidori, for your generous offer. I have always wanted an ivory handled knife and will look into that with BMK.
Larry

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#158976 - 04/06/17 06:32 PM Re: Help Identify Randall Model [Re: Larry Ducati]
JE6245 Offline
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 01/02/14
Posts: 1064
Loc: Tallahassee FL
This just keeps getter better and better. Warren that's a great thing you've done. Larry -- They can also fix you up with a nice sheath to go with that. Mudbone comes to mind for some reason. ;-)
_________________________
Jim E.

“If you don’t know where you are going, you might wind up someplace else.” – Yogi Berra

Me 2020

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#158977 - 04/06/17 06:35 PM Re: Help Identify Randall Model [Re: W Polidori]
rodbrown Online
Knife Enthusiast

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 2146
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: W Polidori
Larry,

Scott has a great idea to have Behring Made do a re-handle on your knife. It certainly will turn out great whatever you decide "but" I have an offer that might interest you. Lets turn a couple of wrongs into a right. Grant Cunningham at BMK has a piece of my Fossil Walrus Ivory that I'll donate should you wish to turn this into a showstopper. The handle will need to be trimmed down some to fit this blade, let them work out the details. You have other options to deal with them as well.
Grant won't be back until early next week from the Oregon show. You are free to contact him if you want to proceed. It would keep your cost down and you won't be disappointed. This is totally your call and under no obligation. Best wishes.


Kind beyond words, Warren.
_________________________
Rod Brown
RKS 3846
RKCC CM-123
Whether you think you can or can not, you are right.

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