This is really good stuff! Thanks for the education guys.

Tom: Thanks! I always enjoy posting to folks who are interested in my drivel. :-)

Joe:

1. Maybe you misunderstood me: The post war Model 3 sheaths are large throat. From my experience the (small) pre-WWII / (large) post-WWII sheath throat width has been 100% consistent with the only exception being Tune's sheath.
2. There were some "3 1/2" Hunters both before and after the war. (For those not familiar: Pete Hamilton coined the phrase "3 1/2" meaning a Model 3 whose spine was uplifted at the end, but not as exaggerated as A Model 4 skinner).
3. Yes / thanks: My Dad's knife is mid '46.

Tune: My pleasure. Ack'd on the Ni/Ag pin. I've seen a lot of Model 3 sheaths, and IMO yours is one of them for sure. The tell is the curvature.

JE: My pleasure, Sir.

Best,

Ron

It does have a bit of a curve, I made the assumption given the single number stamp typical of the model #1's.

So, the summary is it's a '45 blade with a +'48 hilt and pin in a +'48 sheath with a non typical narrow throat?

Bingo! Note:

1. The numbers on the back of Heiser sheaths all the way through the 40's were length only. Model numbers didn't start until the turn of the decade.

2. From your photos, it "seems" that the keeper is not riveted! If this is the case, it is the first that I've ever seen (That also had throat rivets!). There was a "transition" Heiser sheath keeper circa 48-49 that had both a small throat rivet and slots (vs. the old large copper rivet), but the quantity made was really small. Here is an example:

Ron, I am not home tonight, bit I will get better pics of the sheath soon.

Thanks for all the intel.....

After comparing a model 1 and this sheath, Ron is 100% correct...... it is a model #3. Ron, it does have a rivet in the keeper.

Small rivet and slots, so you have the rare transition sheath.

It's possible that the guy who did the stamping just picked up the wrong stamp maybe thinking it was a 5 1/2" blade. However, if it was stamped in 1945, it's a '45 blade and not a '45 knife as the lower quillion is the normal length. Most of those very early 3's had an abbreviated lower quillion like Joe's (Just another "tell").

Ron -

Here is a 7" sheath from a WWII Hunter with wide throat and small rivets. My Commando from 1944 has wide throat and large rivets. Both sheaths are basically identical save for the size of the rivets.

Note the "true" 3 1/2 grind as you described above with the upswept tip. The early post war models while not appearing to being fully two separate models, 3 and 4, it seems the grind was modified for the most part and they were on the way to that end without the exaggerated upswept tip as shown in the photo.

I don't think Mitchell's blade forging is a that early. I think it was forged closer to when it was assembled. As you know better than most, fighter production was nil in those days, so the majority of production was devoted to field knives. I could be wrong but it would seem unlikely (not impossible) that that knife was sitting around for 3 years or so prior to assembly.

Joe,

Agreed: No difference between a WWII 7" Heiser sheath and one just post war up through mid '46 with the one exception that the very early post war sheaths had oversized throat rivets for a few months. The knife you posted: Are you saying it's a 7" WWII Hunter? It looks more like a 6" blade! Also, what kind of a nut on the butt? If it's not brass, it's not a WWII Hunter.

Your WWII Commando sheath: We've had this discussion before: I say the accompanying sheath with large throat rivets is a replacement if indeed the knife was made prior to mid '45. Let's just leave this that we agreed to disagree.

Following are some photos of some 7" post war 3's and 4"s to give you an idea of the general "sweep" differences (I'm posting 7 inchers and not 6 inchers as the extra 1" allows more room to sweep):

1. This is an early post war 3-7 by virtue of the oversized throat rivets and small stamp. It's the same knife that is in Sheldon's book on page 27 (Note that it was incorrectly identified as a Model 4. It has a "hump" coming off the hilt confirming it is a Model 3). Very little upsweep. I would not call it a "3 1/2".



2. This is an early post war 4-7 by virtue of the oversized throat rivets and small stamp. Certainly more upsweep than the previous 3-7, but not as exaggerated as later 4-7's from later in the decade.



3. This is an early post war 4-7 by virtue of the oversized throat rivets and small stamp. Certainly more upsweep than the previous 3-7, but not as exaggerated as later 47's from later in the decade.



4. This is a 3-7 from C 1948 (Page 38 in Sheldon's book). It has the same transition sheath as Tune's 3-6. A bit more upsweep, but again I would not call it a "3 1/2".



5. This is a 4-7 from C 1948. You can see the exaggerated sweep of this deep belly knife. Quite a difference from the C 1948 3-7 above.




6. Here are five 7 inchers. The first three are Model 3's. The last two are Model 4's. First is a WWII Hunter, the 2nd is a mid '45 to mid '46 3-7 with a wide blade and a small stamp (The corresponding sheath had small throat rivets), the 3rd is knife No. 4 above, the 4th is knife No. 5 above and the 5th is knife No. 2 above. This will give you a better perspective of the relative "sweeps" between 3's and 4's from the mid to late 40's.



7. Here is a pic of eight Model 3's spanning the years from 1944 to 1948. I guess you could say some of the were "3 1/2's", but the majority are within the norm for Model 3's. Some of the Model 4's pictured above could actually be called "3 1/2's".



8. Just for grins, here is a pic of a WWII Hunter with a sweep every bit as pronounced as a Model 4. In Gadis' book on page 105, he talks about the development of the Model 4 and his memory of a guy who wanted a larger upsweep for skinning during WWII. That knife must have been similar to this one:

good stuff ron. Yeah, the 3 and 4 did not have as pronounced differences when first introduced as you would find later in the decade.

The blade on the WWII Hunter is around 6 1/2" I believe. Would need to measure it again.

The Commando sheath I will dig out and post a photo, but there is no doubt it came with the knife in 1944. It came from the son of the owner who's brother, a Navy man, won it on a poker game on a ship in San Diego or Norfolk. Gotta check the notes on that one. He sent it home to his brother who was in the USMC to carry but he had already shipped out by the time it got home.

So it is as was delivered from the shop. Never carried.