Nice thing about it being it a standard production item, uses locks/triggers from their standard production known durable gun, unlikely for anything to break, and easy to salt away spares even if something does.

Being a very simple gun, two tumblers (those are inside on hammer and have the notches), two sears, and maybe two mainsprings, and spare parts specific to the brand are pretty much done.

Workmanship about on par with working grade hardware store doubles of 50yrs ago, such as Stevens, and just no worry over using as a daily driver. I certainly had no business buying something such as this just to sit unused.

Lofty,
Sounds like you are pretty well prepared for anything. I doubt if you will need all those spares as I have not heard of many of these have problems.

Wayne

Wayne, "prepared for anything"? Hardly....no more than the average guy.

I mean, EVERYbody has a CAR in their bedroom with a thermal imaging sight, right?

Lofty,
Very,very nice piece there. However in my state,they are BANNED.

Fifty three years ago I had one that was quickly thrust into my hands and it did not work at the worst possible time.

Pretty well soured my taste for the AR/M-4 type weapon from then on.

I turned the remnants of the M-16 back to the armory and "acquired"
(Military translation=S.T.O.L.E) a Stevens Model 77 12 ga pump with a 16" bbl. Things went much better from then on.

Yes,they have improved the platform dramatically but the stigma for me still remains.

Again,a super nice piece.

Wayne

Wayne, I never had much luck with them in the service, and despised them. And this was after first loving them when I helped a friend deliver papers on a bike. So that he could pay his dad for the brand new Colt Sporter with Mattel marked stock and no fwd assist. Which would be about the same time as your wonderful experience. It was a wonder when he handed it to me in a clay pit and I zapped a rusty 5gal bucket at other end of pit and shooting standing.

Then I signed on the dotted line for a world of sex and danger, and found it to be second to many cheap Stevens rimfires in reliability. We were mostly able to use local weapons in my units, and I did, after sorting through them and finding a good one. And to this day, have preferred an SKS or AK or even a Ruger .22 auto to the Colt. And all they did was get bigger and heavier and no more reliable while i was in, first the A1 and then the A2.

And then I found this lightweight pencil barrel modern number, almost as light as the originals, 6lbs empty, 6.25lbs with 20rd mag, and it took me back to that clay pit over 50yrs ago.

Suprisingly, it worked just fine. Which, it turns out, them not doing was much due to our always dogged out weapons, where you deploy with a gun with 80,000 training rds through it, and also, accumulated carbon and battered choked gas tubes and worst, were trained to lube at minimum. The services finally have gotten around to admitting it is a gun which needs to stay well lubed. You get a new gun, run it wet, and it will go at minimum 5000rds, and often twice that, before starting to slow or choke. This is for true milspec weapons, only. Also, the shorter carbine gas system is harsher and more reliable than the longer versions under adverse conditions, so harsh, as a matter of fact, that I installed an H2 buffer to slow things down a mite in timing and battering, as the gun is not going back to the middle east or central or south america or any caribe isle, and neither am I.

But, still not my favorite gun, and it is in the bedroom for that reason, most times. It has one ability no other gun has, and that is the ability to speed change optics to match threats/environments, and try to find any other platform able to take a thermal sight. Yeah, i could add a rail to shotguns, leverguns, etc, but no thermal is going on those. My old Garand-reliable Mini 14 cannot take one at all. Plus the optics and mounts designed for instant mount and eye alignment with this gun, only. And take me out and shoot me if I ever mount such to my favorite short rifle, my 15yr old (actually now 18yr old) pre-Remlin (Remlin=CAST yuk pttoo) .45-70 18.5"bbl Guide Gun (GG/Gigi). The 300gr HPs quite violent inside 75yds.

But, for being able to see in the dark, not self-lluminate even in IR spectrum, and see even latent foot and pawprints coming and going, the CAR is the one to grab. You simply cannot beat that ability when alone and scared in the dark. Plus, it works in ANY light, with no flare at all except from an IR searchlight, so, not blinded by even super bright lights, and looks right thru them as if not even there, automotive high beams included.







add a thermal imager to THIS?!

PS- sorry you could not find, instead, an unaccountably abandoned M12 riot gun, needing a home. Much easier to transfer post to post when broken in half and in ruck, duffle, tent post and stake bag, or even laundry bag. Each half only 21" long, dry weight of under 6.5 lbs, and holds 6rds of milspec buck in the tube, and no disconnector same as your Stevens (and our Remington 31s, Ithaca 37s etc). I found it quite satisfactory, as well. Still do.

Lofty,
Yes,a Model 12 would have been nice as there were several in the armory,probably WW 1 hold overs. But they were pretty much held on to and strictly accounted for.
The Stevens Model 77 was basically a cast off in a "corrosion corner" and served its purpose very well.
When I rotated back stateside,it went back into that armory,in much better condition then when I "obtained"it.

I wish I could get a Mossberg Shockwave in this state as that would be a pretty good piece as I like the Mossberg pumps and have 2.

Funny thing,the Mossberg pistols,which are really sawed off pumps are Class 3 items and may be obtained in this state with,off course the tax stamp procedure but not the Shockwave which is not classified as Class 3. Go figure.

Wayne

ha, I hate it for you there! Have lived places like that, and not worth staying, considering my lifestyle. Life is too short to spend with people who do not like you, as one retired DEA pal once told me. My first experience with the Mossberg shorty legal concept was when the guy who invented the whole idea, his Raptor grip, of Shockwave technologies, was simply selling grips. And you could either buy his grip and order up a 14" LE barrel/mag tube/forend (pretty danged expensive counting a base gun), OR simply cut about 2" off a standard Cruiser to get the just over 26" safe legal minimum. After all, that is what the inventor/discoverer of what the law actually allowed, did. He cut a Cruiser, it was agreed by ATF that he had read law correctly, and he only then came up with even cooler looking, but no shorter, birdshead grip and ordered a LE barrel set, and sent that off, as well.

Pretty soon, Mossberg wondered why all their 14" stuff was selling like hotcakes, and cut a deal with the guy...

But I was cheap back when this all started, and simply cut an old Maverick 88 Cruiser bought really cheaply at a pawn shop. At the time, I did not see much difference, as 26" was 26", and I was wrong. And not just about the Mossberg concept, but also in what makes a handy long gun in the car.

Turns out that with a Cruiser grip and shortened barrel, all the extra length is ahead of the left hand, and still has some tendency to bang the muzzle around, while the Shockwave puts excess length between right hand and elbow where it does not matter as long as it does not stick out past elbow, and a lot lot handier in front.

To tie these various short shotgun threads together along with the above CAR and Gigi divergence, into one nice neat Christmas package, as if planned all along that way, I found the same suprising fact as to relation of front hand and handiness with those two long guns, with a suprising winner.

You would think no contest between a 32"/16"bbl CAR and 37"/18"bbl Guide Gun as for handiness, and you would be as wrong as I was. As, like the cut Cruiser, the CAR makes most of shortening at the buttstock. Observe also how far back the handguard is from muzzle on a CAR, and you have a tremendous amount of rifle sticking out past left hand, whether at civ. legal 16" or military 14.5". The forend on GiGi has very little barrel and magazine sticking out past left hand, and all excess length back, again, between right hand and elbow, not causing near the banging around the longer front of the CAR causes....plus, a much more natural and instictive point with a full stock and actual cheek weld.

I am imagining the 20ga double trouble also regulated in your state? Will be honest and say that for what most folk want in a handy shotgun, the Shockwave is a lead sled pig compared to the Pedersoli, and were Shockwaves or cut Mavericks (with bead reinstalled, as I do no jackleg work) legal for you, we would be on the horn now, as the double trouble has completely displaced both, with exception of my always wanting a highest normal cap. pump shorty sans permission slip for ATF to come in and view everything I own. Truthfully, also, the Shockwave will never be fun unless you use AA Low Noise, Reduced Recoil Target Loads whereupon you may as well shoot light loads out of the Pedersoli..

As for legality, since many states do not copy fed law verbatim as for designating a starter definition of "shotgun" excluding the Shockwave or other PG such stuff, even the Shockwave might be illegal where the muzzleloader might be questionable...

BUT, in such places, I would much rather be busted thru ignorance with a capock muzzleloader than with an evil black modern slide action pump...much more likely to stay out of trouble with more classic looking fare than with any of the modern tacticool (cheap for maker) appearing guns, and no cop or judge would buy at all my whining that I had absolutely no idea my evil black 14" pump shotgun might actually be illegal somewhere, while a totally different and also true befuddlement on a muzzleloader much more likely to have serious traction. Perhaps even in your area.

PS-on the Winchester, it was likely originally an aerial gunnery practice gun, it dates from the early 1950s, and at some point the barrel was cut back to nominal 21" M12 riot gun spec, FULL marking lined out, and restamped CYL, never had any notches cut for heat shield, and simply a reissue for "guard gun" once needs changed. This one was also an Island Of Misfit Guns appropriation, the innards were a mess as for rust, but an actual cleaning found very little pitting of anything under the red tropics induced sludge, only grey stains here and there, it had been written off as unserviceable when it seen all the red oozing out after an extended time of being soaked/saturated. Was in a bandsaw pile. I was actually livid with the guys for abandoning such a class act, and was told, "you like it so much, YOU take it," and I did.

Starting tomorrow, Thursday, Cabelas has a Tarus 9mm on sale for $199.99. That's $50 off. Nice one to just throw in the ATV or your truck instead of your $600+ favorite.

Pap

Lofty,
In my state,if it shoots,it is pretty much banned. Take the Ruger Mini-14 with that standard stock. That is OK. Put a folding stock on it and it now is an assault weapon and banned.

The Walther P-22,because it has a threaded bbl,it is an assault weapon.....Yipes!!!!!

Forget about those evil automatic knives!! You can own them....but no carry them!!

Pappy,
I just saw a Cabelas ad,looks like they are slling Ruger LCPs for $179.

Wayne

And, heck, guys, I already bought GLOCKS to preserve favorites. NOT buying another gun to preserve them, or next thing, will be carrying a slingshot to preserve an LCP. (DON'T LOOK, WAYNE! I KNOW SLINGSHOTS ARE ILLEGAL THERE, TOO...and a bunch of other places, and have been for a loooong time, even where carrying a bowie is legal.)