This is a Terzuola Titanium Folder - 1 or TTF-1

I dug this one up to add it here. I carried it maybe twice and put it away. It has a very smooth action. Locks up tight. I believe this to be a Tough folder.

Re: Hinderer flippers

I handled a couple at the Blade Show, robust enough for me!

Did not buy since I want a tip-up carry on the left side. Sean told me they are working on that, and to keep eyes on the website.

I did notice that the ones I handled did not flip open fully unless a lot of force was put into it. This is in contrast to other makers' knives I have where they use the IKBS bearing system.

I don't know if a maker has to pay for using the IKBS system...? And what that might do to the price of the knife.

Also don't know how well the IKBS system holds up under various loading parameters when the knife is in use. I have not gone looking for any such information, and realize it might hold up very well.

While I might want the Hinderer to be as smooth as the IKBS knives, I would not want to have to flip it repeatedly to get it to "wear in" as a way to reduce friction--to me, that equates to "wear out" in the long run.

Then again, maybe some of the "slick as snot" lubricants would be all that the Hinderer would need to smooth up the action.

Just thinking out loud...any experience from others is welcome as I wait for the lefty version Hinderer to come on the market.

Larry

The tension is adjustable, Larry, and they leave the shop in maximum safe mode....mine fall open as soon as ball detent is past.

If those bearings you mention are caged in steel, all is well and good. Ball bearing steel will chew any other metal to bits, especially blade steel and titanium. If they are simply milling races into blade and interior of liner or frame, it is a very poor idea.

Again, any of these are adjustable, including Sebenzas, but at loss of lockbar tension against side of blade, and in locking force. The hand in a normal grip will prevent unlocking. Abnormal grips or abnormal force pushing bar to unlocked position, all bets are off, even if left at factory setting.

There are several aspects to tuning one of them, Sebenza, Hinderer, etc. First order of biz is to get your favorite grease down inside and on the detent ball area of the lock. Getting that detent ball to pop free of dimple in blade a major factor in ease. But, if too easy, will not pop free and "fire" as some want. I do not mind a bit of wrist action, and pretty much required anyhow on the largest blade due to inertia.

Next aspect is pivot tension, only circa 6° of screw rotation is the difference between dragging hard, and loosey goosey with blade sideplay.

Last area to adjust, and only last, is lockbar tension. Simply tweak it outboard. On the Hinderer, the stabilizer will need be removed with a 0.05" hex drive (say WIHA). And if that sounds too simple, it is. Because 90% of time, what will happen is overshoot, and lock nowhere close to engaging as deeply as original. Why adjust at all? Because of tremendous drag on side of blade by detent ball and bar, set normally very heavy by anybody who cares about safety. I have an Inkosi which came with so much inboard tension that when screws were removed and friction fit of parts broken, the lockbar exploded the knife into a spontaneously disassembled state, but you betcha that lock was safe. Also, it makes a huge amount of difference in getting the detent ball to pop out of detent.

With it overshot, now what? Only one way to approach. It cannot be bent back to proper tension, which always requires a bit of overshoot, with blade and far side of knife in way. So, now, entire knife must be disassembled (ie, lockside removed), tweaked the other way, and hopefully not right back to where it was the first time. Some of this can be checked simply with lockside, blade and pivot.

It takes some acquaintance and developing a feel, and hats off to the assemblers, who must follow boss guidelines for a safe and strong knife.

As for lefty version, a halfway measure is already out, a scale with drilled liner made to take clip screws on far side, either end. I have no need, and hate extra holes, so....but, that much is out there already.

No big tough folder thread would be complete without one of the humongous Cold Steel offerings.

The thickness on this one is circa Inkosi, while the yaller knife of thickness as original Sebenza, just for a helpful visual on those two, as well.

The weight is in between the Spyderco and Hinderer XM 24 in photo, circa XM 18 3.5" blade weight.

This one dates from back when CS and Spyderco had yet to screw metal clips to plastic, then the yaller knife barrel nut, then total screw assembly of knife, and then also heavier metal liner. Just the old simple one piece of plastic and two solid rivets for blade and lock. Nothing to strip, come unscrewtabled, life was light and breezy back then. A favorite. If you want something HUGE, light, flat, easy to carry, and strong, you will not go wrong with one of these.

Will leave obvious pivot diameter out of discussion, but every static test of lock strength still shows a lockback strongest, with handles breaking before lock fails, while bent metal locks invariably continue to curve, especially down low, and either free the blade or hopelessly jam it. As for how tough the Zytel handles on any, I know of a guy in northern Europe who left a plain edged version of my yaller knife outside all night at -65°F, brought it in and batoned with it, no problem, then smacked open knife handle sides with a hammer, and it cracked, but knife still serviceable.

Eric, that is one fine solid knife there, for sure. With today's increased pivot diameters, increased lock thickness, light strong metals construction, we are in a golden age of folders.

Lockbacks, too, nice and big and tough, eclipse the days when the Buck 110 and Harley Sportster ruled the bad boy roost. Bob makes excellent knives (and that spearpoint blade looks tough as nails), and so does Mel Pardue, who pretty much has moved on to liner locks, today.



And, Eric, I have never seen the Terzuola up close, and very much appreciate the close-ups of construction. I might need to git me one o' doze. As for packaging, Hinderer has him beat, his knives come in a zip lock, and ziplock inside a small flip top cardboard box with extra room taken up by a free handful of tactical foam peanuts. AND a signed inspection/assembly card the size of a business card. They all leave the nice current presentation boxes of goodies to Reeve, and nice, it is.

Lofty--
Thanks for your insights. I will almost certainly buy a Hinderer, having had various others discussed here.
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Side thought: The Spydercos are disappointing...in that the sharpness coming out of the factory cannot be matched once the knife is dulled! I even sent one back for them to sharpen it once, and they told me as much. So--it makes sense to carry one as an unused knife for any situation where it absolutely has to cut, and not dull it doing everyday chores.
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A bit of history that doesn't mean anything at this point.
Probably about 1979-1980, I was visiting a rather talented knifemaker who made both fixed blade knives and liner-lock folders.
He commented that the liner locks were not safe to carry because they could slip open accidentally. Thinking about it, I suggested that he install one of the spring-loaded ball detents inside and put a dimple into the tang of the blade to keep it in the closed position, the spring allowing the ball to be depressed and rolled out of the detent as opening pressure on the blade pulled it out of the handle.
When I returned home, I went into the library of the technology company where I worked and got vendor information on ball detents and sent it to the maker.
Within about a month he called me and said he had made the first such knife, and did I want to buy it. I did. Nice little folder with titanium frame and bolsters, Stellite blade. He had installed the detent into one bolster, with a screw to adjust the pressure on the ball.
I don't know if he made any more like this, and shortly afterward the Michael Walker version came out with the detent ball mounted into the liner lock as came to be the standard approach. There is a good review of Walker at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Walker_(knifemaker)
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By the way, the IKBS ball bearings that I have seen are a series of 1/16-inch uncaged steel balls, and run in races milled around the pivot holes in the handles of the knives. While they are apparently heavily greased, I don't know what grease might be used by whichever maker. I also don't know what this arrangement does insofar as mechanical strength for the assembly and for the durability of the knives.
Larry

Larry, again, ball bearings are HARD, and will wear grooves in whatever they run, or worse. No getting away from that.

As for Spydercos, it really depends on the steels. A lot of the modern super duper steels (of which Spyderco and their buyers now sadly fixate) are causing problems both at factory and with user, whether too hard from sharpening heat and chipping, or impossible to sharpen to a fine polish without highspeed machinery. The simpler steels such as AUS8A were easy to get as sharp or sharper, same with H1. Fine grained steels take razor edges. Serrations are another matter, those go to the factory, period. And I avoid serrations in any but H1 steel, today, for same edging reasons, as well as increased fragility of blade and scalloped edges with super duper steel.

A quote from the Hinderer general information page....
"**A side note for those of you who can’t flip your knife open to your liking, this is not a warranty or service issue. There are plenty of threads on the subject in our online forums at bladeforums.com  and usualsuspects.net  as well as youtube videos that can help you. Oil, pivot adjustments, and technique is where you will find your answers….The same goes for blade centering, lots of threads and info on the forums to help you out."

And yes, sometimes centering is off, and surely will be after putzing. That, also is adjustable, via a tightening sequence while pushing blade desired direction,.... with handle fasteners loosened, and pivot snug/bottomed-out as can be with blade half-open, close knife, push blade desired direction while tightening others screws back to front. Then readjust pivot tension and see where you are. This also is an acquired knack.

Again, some folk want that detent to stick until finger turns red and then pop loose and fire the blade open. Other folk like me want to easily boost it open and finish with a wrist flick. I can hold my favorite set knife by back and shake open with a good shake or two, that light a detent pressure. TOTALLY different set-ups and folk whining on various forums are annoying, refusing to admit THEIR set-up may not be perfection personified.

But, again, before messing with detent pressure/drag on blade, first grease that detent ball area on inside of lock bar, and get pivot clamping set to liking (CHECKED WITH LOCKBAR PUSHED AWAY FROM CONTACT WITH BLADE WHILE SWIVELING BLADE....forgot to mention that detail), and THEN adjust lockbar detent effort and side drag via tweaking.

And to think we might owe detent liner locks to you!!! The Larry Lock!!! Heck, that sounds SSSOOOooooo much better than the Walker Liner Lock....The Larry Lock....I love it.

PS- Hinderer tools....firstly, the Hinderer-made tool (when they do a run of them, as with everything they make) is perfect for working on the pivot for spanner and slot, or messing with XM-18 3.5" and XM-24 4" handle screws. Those handle screws are 5/64ths hex drive. Stabilizer screw is 0.050 hex drive. Pocket clip and filler tab are true #1 Phllips.

PPS- Larry, I must admit my XM-24s are my favorite folders of all time. Such a strong largish knife, in such a compact folded package. I always come back to one. Yes, large for a folder, but yes, small for a 3/16ths" thick 4" knife, period, when folded. The Spanto is nigh unbreakable, the Spearpoint very tough and better cutter. I generally opt for the Spanto as it cuts well enough to do the job for me, and just too cool to finally have a folder that there is no back of mind fear of it being weaker than a fixed blade. The XM-18 3.5" is a tough knife, but not even quite as large as an Endura Spyderco, and not a lot easier to carry IWB than the XM-24 as for bulk, even if lighter. And easy to see why some military and emergency responder types loved the XM-18, but likely said, "yeah, but can you make a bigger one with even tougher blade and handle large enough for big guys with gloves? You see, we have a tendency to use our folders like fixed blades, and bust them all the time....". The XM-24 is the answer to such a mindset, even if words not precise transcript.

Lofty--

I will be offline for the next week plus, but just for the heck of it I will dig out the Mike Franklin folder and post some photos when I get back.

I will also have time then to digest all the info in your most recent post...before deciding which Hinderer to buy!

Larry

Well, I look forward to seeing photos of another knife when you return, and feel free to wait until a full lefty lock is made to your liking on a knife of that expense, if you please.

However, as mentioned prior, these scale kits are available (for now, remember they simply do batches in that small outfit, whether knife or parts) for the XM-18 3.5"/only, to get that "almost a lefty knife" action going.
https://www.dlttrading.com/searchresults.html?Search=&search_query=hinderer+4-way+scale+kit

If you want to play Capitano Customize on a knife, the 3.5" has the most goodies made, but the 4" does have alternate scale colors and hardware available, again, in batches/runs.

While thinking about it, as for hardware/tools etc, cannot cover everything, but...
XM-18 3", 3.5", FATTY 3.5", and XM-24 all use different thickness spacers between sides.

XM-18 3" is mostly all unique parts aside from clip/filler/and maybe stabilizer/screw.

XM-18 3.5", FATTY 3.5" and XM-24 share pivot and scale screws, plus clip and stabilizer.

And before trusting my recollection on those or the below pivot screw, do some checking.

Due to thicker XM-24 4" using same pivot screw as the XM-18 3.5", the smaller knife has more pivot screw protrusion in pivot, and will for near certain require a spanner of some sort. On the XM-24, you MIGHT get by with a very thick and straight sided standard slotted bit on both sides, rather than spanner needed on one side...might. I still recommend the cool Hinderer tool. It lacks torque (sadly missed when first messing with their thread locker which stays SNUG nearly entire length of screw through several R&R cycles), but it fits everything perfectly, and I mean perfectly and scratch free if held into recesses.

And he has made quite a few models, the newest a production version of his handmade Firetac, but also the Eklipse, etc, not as beefy as the good old XM series.

As for the steels, it is noticed correctly,
some are very difficult to sharpen if at hand there
is no set of 2-5 quality stones.

Very good sharpening is given by diamonds on almost
all steels, but with those that are very hard (REX121),
there may be problems - microdamages of cutting edge,
if the abrasive is too coarse..

At A.G. Russell I like the steel 9Cr13CoMoV and 8Cr13MoV,
they work well enough and stable.
I noticed that they made a very large folding knife and
think it's a bit too big. I should order it and try it
as a folding kitchen knife for hikes
https://agrussell.com/knife/A-G-Russell-5-1-2-Framelock-Flipper--AGYH-FRKY9
for everyday use it is a bit too big for me,
although there may be people with big hands
for whom it will be small, as a knife for a friend
Bob Loveless www.boblovelessknives.com/for_sale_Lawndale_BigDropHunter.html


But again everything depends on the specific manufacturer,
more precisely from the specific quality of hardening.
Many large firms - Spyderko, Benchmade and others
from time to time had setbacks with new steels.
I remember "military" with S30V, which was very fragile
during the grinding, these were the first shipment.
Then, after all, this problem was fixed

p.s.
add little about Michael Walker Lock
www.knife-expert.com/liners.txt