My statement of "improved" was because of the fact that the more predominant (exaggerated, if you will) top security blade shaping made the blade safer to use with gloves...nothing more...nothing else.
Hope this helps, Capt. Chris

Thanks Capt Chris. Do you know approx when that top security blade shaping started?
Thanks
Richard

This is an Astro I think pre 1972 judging the small rivets, by this time the top clip was angled like a model 15, the hilt was shorter and thicker, the handle end was still rounded like the original.
Has the Astro always had a stainless hilt?



Richard

This photo seems to indicate that the late '60's early '70's version remained into the sheaths without rivits.
Did the top security blade shaping happen before the more square butt handle, or did both features happen at same time?

Following the discussion in general, a couple of thoughts.

Let's give RMK some slack on the use of the word "replica." In general, it can be taken to mean that the Model 17's they were offering to the public were made to be similar to those made for the space program--after all, these knives were not the "same" knives that they made for the government.

Also, we might allow for the fact that designs of most models have evolved over the years. For whatever reasons--maybe some refinements based on user feedback, tweaking the aesthetics of the original design, etc.

This just gives diehard collectors more things to dwell on, discuss and argue about, and more knives to chase as they try to gather example of all variants!

Larry

Larry, I'm not sure what you mean about the knives "were not the same as the ones used by the Govt." Other than the rhodium plating that the NASA knives got, and maybe a little larger cavity cutout, I believe the early ones were identical. O1 tool steel and brown micarta. Those early replicas were the same. Even the tall thinner SS hilt.
I don't think it's a matter of giving Randall knives slack, it's just after the first few years they weren't replicas anymore, and they eventually stopped using the replica language.
There are those who are purests and if they admirred the original space knife and wanted one that looked like it....well that's what they would seek out.
I'm certainly not trying to be argumentative, but it seems the discussion has gone on a long time, and some people are purists, I put myself in that place, and from what I gather Ronnie prefers the early Astros too.
True enough about product evolution and feedback over the years making changes. That happens in all industries.
All in all it just makes those early true replicas that much more special. Rare too. I have been watching of late and those mid 60's Astros in brown micarta seem to be as rare as hens teeth.

Richard

I see the term "replica" being thrown around quite a bit. Although the RMK catalog may have used the term early on, I don't think it should be taken in the literal sense.

The early brown 17's are the same knife the Astronauts used for all practical purposes. Whether they be the Solingen training knives NASA acquired or the hand forged astronaut "issue" pieces.

The change in the blade grind is not appealing to some folks. To net it out, the current model 17 in most respects holds little resemblance to the earlier pieces.

I agree crutchtip. To illustrate my point I have put 3 photos of the Astro together. The top is Gordon Cooper's Astro, the middle is a mid '60's brown micarta, the bottom is from the current catalog.
The top 2 are very close, which a "replica" should be.
The bottom is similar, but not a replica.
I'm glad that Randall knives dropped the replica advertisement years ago, because the bottom knife imo is not a replica.

Freeman 1901,

I own probably a dozen old Astro's, including the one in your photograph, P-74 from the 1991 "Green" catalog. I have brown Micarta, black micarta, no handles, both Orlando and Solingen blades, and a few of the newer blade design models. I too appreciate the earlier blade design without the "guthook" spine. Ronnie knows some of my knives..

Tattoo Bill,
I know from seeing the earliest Randall Catalog that they were made without scales. I haven't seen one yet. Do you have a picture of one?
Richard