Thanks for your response, but other than custom making a stainless hilt, can you explain WHY it's a "no" to leaving OFF an added labor step? (upper false edge grind)

It's LESS work but I'd pay a premium! This makes a stronger upper edge, and doesn't dig into a light baton as readily. (I haven't ruled out the possibility of my grinding off the false edge on my personal Model 28 "user", to widen the surface area and make it less likely of the blade spine to dig into a light wooden baton,... but even that doesn't get me where I'd like to be.

Also, as a practical matter, providing a straight lower, even main grind is LESS effort than all various angles of the usual grind coming together.

I know this can be tricky. On my current Model 28, where the side flat areas meet the main grind, they are "off" in symmetry by about 1/2 inch in length. This seems a bit more than what is probably usual, but of course doesn't affect performance in any way. It does show these are trickier to grind than they need to be.

About the only thing I can think of for all these "no's, is that Randall does not want to create "rarities" in one sense.

If this is the reason, it seems a rather short sighted argument for what are practical improvements in actual field performance capabilities for the woodcraft crowd, not to mention an easier to baton smaller wood pieces with. (I think Randall doesn't approve batoning and voids warranties on such things?) And as a general "survival knife" has added desirability in my view.

YMMV

I understand the time constraints and backlogs,....but NOT how doing LESS grind work increases the effort to produce a particular knife?

That said, a thought comes to mind,..... I know folks can submit their own handle material and Randall will install it. (but not guarantee it) That said I "could" hand cut out a stainless steel single hilt, with final opening left a little small for final fit at the shop. I'm not sure if this would be a possibility, but see no difference from customer supplied handle material,....... or other parts such as hilts??

Just thinking out loud here, but it's just this kind of thing that prompts me to make changes to my personal "users", if said changes improve the performance for my needs and wants. (like the Model 26 Pathfinder I thinned the blade on to .14 inch tapering to .1 inch at the tip)

BTW, the 4 year backlog can be shortened drastically by getting in on a dealer's spot placed much earlier. (was my understanding delivery can be about 6 months this way?)

In any case, I didn't expect they would do it, only that they "could" do it.

Imagine,...producing a popular model variation that folks might pay $100 MORE for, but take less effort to produce......

.....ummmm,.....seems a business home run to me.

Joe, I understand the dealer program.....very well. That does not change the fact that the shop still has a four year backlog with the monthly dealer allocations factored in.

The shop makes hundreds of knives per month.... if all were "one offs", that would be very difficult to control.

You talk about the shop being short sighted.... odd for a company that's been around since the 1930's and is in it's third generation of family operation.

You may be on the right path for you....buy a Randall and alter it to suit your needs.

Joe,

Ordering through a dealer, like me, does shorten the waiting time for the customer, but not the shop's workload.

We dealers are allocated so many spaces for specific date deliveries. If all the spaces are taken up with customer orders and the dealer's own "on demand" inventory, then the potential customer has to wait for the next open space to materialize.

The Shop is labor-intensive, obviously. If three men are out of work due to the flu or some malady, the workload is still there and the schedule is affected.

Right now, the Shop is running two months behind posted delivery dates for dealers orders for cut-down tang knives (model 1, model 2, sporting models, Bowies, etc.) and three months behind posted delivery dates for full-tang knives (model 14, 15, 16, 17, 28, etc.).

The Shop does what it can with its crew. Remember, they lost 3 very fine craftsmen to retirement, 40 years for each man! Show me another line of work where folks are willing to spend twice as many years on the job with such excellence in workmanship.

Some customers like to order directly from the Shop and wait four or five years. Their advantage is being locked into the price in the year they order the knife, and gives them that long to pay off the order.

Hi, I was not talking "short sighted" in a general business sense. If you go back you'll see I was saying "IF" all the "no's to blade grind preference changes (with less production efforts), was because Randall does not want to create "rarities", then THAT would be a short sighted view.

Short sighted in that if it became a popular grind, and you could get a premium for the option with less labor expended to produce, .....and had real practical benefits in the field,.....then the possibility of it not being done to avoid producing a rarity would be moot!

It's not rare IF there are a LOT of them being ordered and sold! Hope you better understand what I meant.

Overall, Randall's product demand and order backlog demonstrate a great business sense.

But in one real way the building of the Randall backlog is the direct result of many buyers simply collecting various models and examples, often many multiples of the same model. (I'm partial to the 26 Pathfinder, I have 3 currently, but it's not everything I'd prefer in some respects for my tastes)

Many of those collectors never actually use even ONE example. Such a shame really, but seems to me that's the main reason for the backlog.
I don't begrudge the collector, btw, as they often become sellers when switching direction or thinning the herd and guess what,.....no 5 year wait!

That alone is worth every additional penny spent to get what you want in a few days, especially for us older enthusiasts. I'm almost 59 now,...so do I want to wait 5 years for an order? NO WAY! I could be in a wheelchair, or god forbid,..."dead on arrival" (of my order spot coming up )

As a logical thinker I find it difficult to understand a "no" to a request to leave some labor steps out, yet get paid the same (or more for). A workman gets an order for a blade,....and a note is added to "leave OFF the false edge entirely, with a Model 1 style lower grind". Seems pretty simple......

I worked most every day for 35 years in making and repairing jewelry. For 8 of those years I worked 7 days a week except the 3 days a year the Mall I worked then was closed. (Easter, Thanksgiving, and Christmas) I took no vacation, and 65-70 hour weeks were the norm for me. Two weeks before Christmas I worked 95-100 hour weeks!

Boy is that tiring.....work 15 hours and sleep, work 15 and sleep, repeat to your next day off,....2 weeks out...... (I usually slept in at least 15 hours until mid afternoon on Dec 25th.)

Instructions were provided to add this head to a ring blank and to set that diamond, and size the ring to a certain size.

When an engagement ring order came thru to not size the ring as it fit fine, do you really think it slowed production because I had to do LESS work on the item by NOT sizing it?

Quite the opposite in fact, and Randall's backlog might even go down a month or two with the labor savings,.... not to mention less wear and tear on grinding belts. Not an insignificant amount either, as you're saving almost a THIRD of the surface area of the total current grind. So belts get an extended life by about a third on making up this model blade configuration......

I guess that's what I'll never get,.....It simply makes NO sense to say "no" sometimes. Rules should be there for a REASON, not just because you want a rule that says no.

I really don't want to beat a dead horse here, but I think I've shown that there are REAL labor AND material savings presented with what I've described. These savings to Randall's materials and labor costs should not be wholly rejected, simply because it's easier to say "no".

Someday I'll locate a suitable "broken tip" Randall blade that I can rework to my preference. A carbon steel model 1-6 or 1-7 with 1-2 inches broken off the tip might do, as I'd like to end up around 4 to 4-1/2 inches of usable blade length. I just don't have the heart to chop up a useable factory setup example.

If anyone out there has something like that in their closet,....give me a holler.

Joe, the reason behind the No on the blade grind is that the catalog says No in the questions and answer section. Now what lead to that policy I don't know but thats what the catalog says. I ask about getting a Model 25 with out the thumb notches and was told no. oldguy

I hear ya,....makes no sense to me either, but I guess you can figure out how to arrive at a Model 25 without thumb notches????

I guess I've always known the answer was no, (with no real explanation given)_....which is why I've had no qualms about making changes in a blade to better meet my preferences.

I actually owned FOUR model 25's at one time, all with premium grained dark wonder stag (I sought them out years ago),....but never used mine and sold them off more than a year or maybe 2 years ago.

I prefer a 4" to 4-1/2" blade to carry regularly, and the model 25 on the long side of that, with a wider blade. My recent 1-7 Kit knife doesn't fit that size preference, but it's been growing on me for it's other qualities.

Thanks for all your thoughts on this subject guys. Not what I'd hoped for but not your fault either. I will survive just the same.

cheers,
Joe T

PS......there is a bit of work I plan to do this spring on my thinner blade model 26. You can do a lot with a flexible shaft machine, a fine and extra fine grit stone 1 inch diameter cutoff discs, a fine grit rubber wheel, and a 2" muslin polishing wheel. An example of what I mean below. (was just the 2nd knife I tried)

This is the smallest knife that I've added vine-work jimping along the spine. (a tiny Buck 55 locking folder that I also removed the false edge to even the spine for a cleaner look)

I found basic shaping instruction on the net, and got to work. Other than scratching off evenly spaced starting points with a set of dividing calipers, all work was cut freehand (slowly) using a 2.5X magnifying headband.



Pretty small to work,...yes! Toughest on the eyes though, for the 2+ hours required. I did this one a few years ago. It always resides in a leather snapped pouch on my belt every day. Holds my ID, credit cards,some emergency cash, and this handy little bugger.

Very nice work Joe.

I think we have stayed on this subject long enough, particularly in this topic area. The purpose for having the ordering questions topic is/was to help answer questions and reduce calls to the Randall shop. The "question" has been answered. "Probilities" and "what ifs" are excellent topics..."BUT"...(I know: There's that word again)...please add a new thread to this Randall "main forum"...or in "sharp talk".
Thanks, Capt. Chris
PS: Something that I will add is that no one has thought about possible labor time "delays", in the forge, by stopping standard Model #28 forgings to "change" the blade configuration. Adding a new model probably is not in the future and the "Woodsman" sells like hotcakes, just the way it is!
CCA

I'll be brief here but don't really understand your point??? Nothing I suggested involves "stopping" anything done in the forging step. The rough shaped blade comes out of there as usual. The change would be at the grinder's bench, to NOT do something,...(cut in the false edge), and adding a simpler straight main grind. This comes much later after many clean up and shaping steps.

So I don't think not putting in a false edge can be argued as additional labor in changing the blade configuration? At least that's the way I understand it???

And yes,...I imagine it already is a great seller, with the thinner 3/16" blade stock AND especially the full tang the reason, IMO. There is a reason even thinner blade stock (usually 1/8") is used on bushcraft knives,...they are plenty strong to baton, and they SLICE so easily. Physics "ain't" wrong. Love to see a forged Randall "bushcrafter" some day, scandi anyone?....not in my lifetime. (I'm 58)

cheers,
Joe T