You're welcome, Kent. But.............what's this "Crutchtip" sh%#? Elvis has had more sightings on this forum than Joe recently!

Best,

Ronm

Here is a Heiser Model 1 sheath that you may compare your sheath to also.

Regards,

Rhett

Great piece, Rhett! Thanks for posting it. Another circa '60 painted metal snap data point. That helps put some substance behind this thread's title. Is that a recent acquisition or have you had it for a while?

Best,

It is not mine. A friend recently bought it in Arizona.

Regards,

Rhett

This is a great forum but I think I am more confused thanever (nothing new in that). In summary we have:

1. Unmarked sheath with plain button (probably a Johnson by the the stone pouch is shaped).
2. The single keeper strap plain button in a Heiser.
3. The Model 2 Johnson with a plain button.
4. Rhett's friends sheath that is a Heiser with both buttons plain.

I am sorry but I cannot figure out te pattern in the use of the buttons. Then you throw in Stockman sheaths in this same era.I guess in 1961-62 Bo was trying out a lot of sheath options to see what he liked best. I am enclosing a photo of a knofe I no longer own but I feel is a Stockman and it was delivered in early 1961. Any other sheath oddities from this time?

Mike Webb
RKS #4107

other side

Hi Mike,

No need to feel like the Lone Ranger: No one I know of can identify for certain those sheaths that appear to be from the late 50's and very early 60's that are not marked Heiser. For sure Heiser and Stockman were making sheaths for Bo during that era and some believe that Johnson was involved before 1962.

Johnson became extremely good at duplicating Heiser sheaths in a relatively short period of time (Stockman never got that good IMO). If you take a Heiser sheath from '61 and a Johnson sheath from '63 and lay them face up, they are hard as heck to tell apart.

With regard to these sheaths that have surfaced with brown metal snaps: It seems to me that there is a higher probabability that they were all made around the same time as a result of the supply of brown buttons being depleted for a short time as opposed to them being used over a several year span. If one assumes the former, then we have an interesting mixture of sheaths made at the same time:

1. Bernie's 2-5 with a Randall stamp.
2. My 3-6 sheath with no stamp.
3. My 3-6 with a Heiser stamp.
4. Rhett's 1-7 with a Heiser stamp.

The "odd man out" is Bernie's 2-5 sheath with a Randall stamp! All the knives that we've seen paired with these sheaths to include the 2-5 have blade grinds (primarily choils) that indicate they were ground prior to 1962 when Johnson reportedly first arrived on the scene. We can easily rule out Stockman as the maker, so that leaves just Heiser as the maker of all four sheaths to include the 2-5 (Unless you want to believe that Johnson was involved prior to '62). Continuing this line of reasoning, there should be other Heiser sheaths with a Randall stamp. Sure enough we see sheaths that clearly have more Heiser charcteristics than Johnson such as Stephen's sheath in the middle of his photo as well as knives and sheaths that have date provenance prior to 1962 such as the double hilt 3-7 on page 169 of Bob Hunt's book "Randall Military Models".

I know I'm making a leap of faith assuming that all four sheaths were made at roughly the same time and that they were all made prior to 1962, but given there is no hard evidence to the contrary I'm leaning towards the belief that towards the end of Heiser's reign, Bo got them to agree to ship unmarked sheaths to the shop and the shop stamped a Randall logo on them.

Best,

Pretty good leap, Ron. All "possible"...but is it anymore or less possible than the simple expanation that...Just because a blade seems to have a "pre-62" grind...doesn't mean it was "completed" pre-'62...especially an oddball (fairly, compared to 6,7 or 8") 5 inch stiletto. Quite possible this knife was ordered during the Johnson era and an already forged blade, left in the bin (many times 50 were forged at a time) was pulled to fill the order??? Just sayin'. I don't remember the Randall shop doing a lot of sheath stamping??
Best, Capt. Chris

Chris,

I'd say more probable. Of course you can't rule out a blade forged and ground that sat in the bin for a while, but at the same time you have to consider all the evidence at your disposal. Take a hard look at Stephen's 1-7 knife and sheath (Which has the horizontal Randall stamp) in the middle of the below photo:



That sheath has characteristics that no Johnson sheath I've ever seen has (The "countour" for example). The blade has a nice deep choil and the model is one that was very popular at that time of the Vietnam build up.

Also, didn't realize you were in the shop in ~ 1960.