Let's talk about the merits of stainless vs. carbon steel for Randall blades. (That's easy: Stainless!!) Let the debates begin, but civil and appropriate.
Best, Capt. Chris

Quote:

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If you want to argue something...Argue the merits of stainless vs. carbon steel for Randall blades. (That's easy: Stainless!!) Let the debates begin, but civil and appropriate.
Best, Capt. Chris

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Carbon, hands down.
~dale

All my users are carbon. Love that patina Dale.

That's easy: Stainless!!)
I don't debate with anyone on the forums, but Capt you are so wrong this time. Carbon has ruled since the Iron age. Ha

Not much of a debate, but I like both. My rule of thumb is:

- Stainless with synthetic handle materials

- Carbon with natural handle materials

Seemed like a debate starting on carbon versus stainless blades so I started a new thread. Hope that is OK.

Best regards,

Rhett

If it's a user I'd go with carbon.

My first orders, in the 1960's and 1970's were always for tool steel but poor care on my part resulted in carbon spots. Now my orders are usually for stainless.

Good topic!

Of course, it should be pointed out that for some models, or specific versions of some models, there is no choice, and the blade material is either carbon steel or stainless steel. The 3/8" blades, for example, are available only in carbon steel. Also, some aspects of this "shop policy" have changed over time, and one was within the last year.

Rhett and others,
This "stainless vs. carbon" topic was being used by me as an example of how we need to move past our differences. It was posted in a different thread and, now that it has been moved, gives the appearance that I am calling for a stainless vs. carbon steel debate. Not the case.
I posted my opening statement in an entirely seperate thread and wished it to stay there. I guess every now & then we get a new topic by mistake.
Best, Capt. Chris

Hey Captain,

Here is one:

Crossing the border one time a few years back, a U.S. Border patrol agent was checking my car. He looked into the back seat and saw my #3 6 inch stag (I didn't completely zip the bag). He said, "Hey look a Randall - what do you have this for?" I told him that I was a plant geneticist, and that the #3 was my field knife. As he was admiring it with 2 other agents gathered by the car - He said to them and me, "Look a Randall - Why stainless?" I told him that stainless was easy to clean after a day of cutting stalks and root crowns (shovel used for the digging part). It turned out that he had a #1 7 inch standard carbon. It was quite interesting, as it was the first and probably last time that I'll ever get to discuss Randalls, while surrounded by border patrol agents in the middle of a border crossing.

The U.S. Border patrol are good people doing a tough job.

Cheers,

Alan Grombacher
RKS#5531

Good story Alan. Thanks for sharing.

Alan, I agree...great story.

Like a lot of us older guys, I grew up with carbon blades. My first knives were Marbles that belonged to my grandfather. The first stainless knives I ever owned were Swiss Army, then some early Spyderco "Police" models.

The first two Randalls were carbon, so I guess it's what you're used to carrying and sharpening.

Dubie Baxter

I originally posted the carbon statement just teasing the Capt after reading his post. I didn't think it would turn into a whole thread discussing blade steel.

Regarding the blades...
I actually have and use both (and like both). A long while back I was under the impression that SS was not possible for me to sharpen. I had lots of trouble getting an edge on cheap knives that I have had in the past. Randall's SS is easy to sharpen though, so no problems. It is more brittle than the 01 tool steel if that is a concern to anyone. The blue-ish patina that develops on the 01 blades is of no concern to me, I actually like it. The small carbon spots really don't bother me either so I am happy with the carbon. It performs better than expected, holds an edge for quite a long time, and is easy to maintain with a stone and wiping off the blades.
~dale

For the first 20+ years of owning Randall's, I never had a stainless blade except for the #18 which has never been "used". It's been with me for a bunch of chopper and plane rides, but never had to use it. On the other hand, I have #'s 7 and 5 (Brad) that are carbon and have been used hundreds of times over the years. Best users in my experience are the carbon steel blades. The SS may look "pretty" as they do not stain, but I think it's a "red badge of courage" to have a used Randall with a stained carbon steel blade.

Okay. So maybe this wasn't intended to be a thread but I find it very interesting to see what others think about stainless vs carbon blades. In the builds the vote seems to always go stainless, but there are quite a few posts here in support of carbon steel. I would echo those thoughts. Growing up I preferred carbon steel because I was never happy with the edge that I could put on a stainless blade. Also stainless knives never develop a "personality" like carbon knives do. One stainless blade looks pretty much like any other... forever !. The only exception for me was a knife that I wanted to use around salt water. Those had to be stainless so I could use them more than once . I've never quite gotten over my aversion to stainless for users but these days if I buy a knife that I might trade or sell, I look for stainless because that is what the market seems to prefer.

Gee, I was only playing about Carbon being best. I have both and have used both. I do prefer Carbon! But I like Randall's SS as well. Carbon spots don't hurt a thing on a knife. If it is rusting that is one thing. Most of my carbon users have spots and are stained I think they have character. I don't mind as I may be a collector but I'm not a seller. So I look at them and try to recall what I did with the knife to get it to look so cool.

I am really liking this thread and while I use carbon all the time if I was going to be around salt water all the time I would probably use stainless. Maybe I need to get a stainless Randall in case that happens.

I just learned the hard way that my carbon blades, which I love for ease of sharpening and edge holding capability, are like cats around water.

This is what happened after a day out a lake.





So, I have to say carbon in the field and stainless in and around the water.

Capt.tought me a long time ago,Stainless is the way to go!
After 50 years in Florida seeing items ruined by Rust,I prefer Stainless.I would have loved to buy every Club knife in SS.I worry about carbon spots or rust on those Carbon blades.How many forum members are looking to buy a nice Randall with rust on it. Just my opinion.

Like some here, I have both and use both. Never had a big problem with carbon blades in the woods
up here in the Northeast... except for snow ... which turns into water when it gets into a sheath,
as I learned last winter on a snowshoe hike. So ... in snow, I'll always try to carry a SS blade.
Same for salt water.
Tony

I live in North Carolina, and the humidity sometimes reaches 100% (honestly). You can't go out side unless you have gills. All of my Randalls are stainless, except one. I didn't read the description carefully on that one. I have several on order, and only one is carbon steel, a 12-13. I would gladly pay $100.00 bucks extra for SS if that is what it would be for a piece of SS steel that big.

I have had the same thing happen in one day with a carbon knife.The sheath was wet and when I got home I took the knife out and it was rusty.Still like carbon steel,but use stainless in wet weather.

David,
Have you used anything on that #5 ... like FLITZ ... to clean it up?
If you did ... any photos?
The experience I had while snowshoeing happened with my #15 in a combat master sheath also!
Not as bad as yours, but I got the spots out with FLITZ and put a coat of REN WAX on it.
Tony

i prefer carbon for performance but in italy many people prefer stainless for easy clean. i don't use randall for outdoor. in the future i bought a randall carbon for use in the wood.now i use folding beretta and nordic stromeg.is little time that i know randall and i don't never use.but it's performance is known!

Hey I am glad to see this thread because I have been wondering what the consensus is on this. I have a Randall dive knife that is, of course, Stainless. I haven't used it yet but plan to at some point, and it seems like stainless would be the only logical choice there.

My gamemaster blade is carbon, and I am glad it is, so I can try that and see how I like it. It already has acquired some staining and blueing from cleaning fish and cutting some food items. Pretty cool. I have not sharpened it yet, and have written about this in another post.

Couple of things here-- many say "carbon but if in the wet, use stainless". Seems to me, with a knife that will be the main user, you may never know when you might get wet , or be in the wet. Especially on a multiday trip or camp event. WIll it be that bad when the knife starts getting wet if it is not salt water? What do you guys do, carry two knives, and chose depending on the weather????????????

Why do so many prefer carbon? The look, sharpening ease? Sparking ability? Less brittle? Other things?

Most of my other "user" knives are stainless of one grade or another. They have been excellent and I have had little trouble sharpening them. They perform well and look great.

But I can see how the carbon blade can have it's own appeal.

Is the stainless harder, or just more brittle?

Thanks for all your inputs,
Doug P.

Hi all. I'm new to Randall but hooked nonetheless. With input from several of you (Tony, Guido, The Captain, Ken Lunde, and Gary Clinton), I currently own a 5-6 Angier, 3-5 stag, and #28.

I'm considering ordering a couple more knives and was trying to decide between .01 carbon and stainless -- and found this thread from last year.

While I understand the (obvious) benefits of stainless I don't really understand the benefits of carbon. The last poster (Doug) asked some good questions along this line. Input appreciated.

Thanks.
John

As far as I am concerned carbon has no benefits. It rusts and stains so easy, pretty much every time you use it you will be able to see something. Carbon sharpens faster than stainless but I don't always see that as a benifit as it is a little softer. They are both tough as nails in the field. I have battoned both through seasoned white oak and they held tough.

I have nothing against carbon but I see no advantage.

I think the high carbon steel is marginally harder near the edge than a high carbon stainless blade; it would be interesting to do a Rockwell test on both. Perhaps there may be some difference in toughness as well. Why not call Randall and ask them?

Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ

I am 99% sure the rc is 56-57 on the carbon and 57-58 on the stainless

Hmm. dont realy know but it's easy to harden high carbon steel to 58-60 hrc and even harder.. The stainless Randall I have seems to be a little bit softer in steel than the o1 steel.

I am no Randall collector nor do I have the vast knowledge as most of you here, but when is the last time you saw a failure with carbon blades. I cant recall any. Guys like the late Ron Hood (survival instructor) used his carbon 8 inch model 1 hard with out failure. The story is it was a replacement due to him breaking a stainless model. Anyway, stories are just that unless seen first hand. My first hand experience was with a model 14 in stainless. No matter how hard I tried I could not keep it sharp. Finally sold it to an Army Captain who put it in his safe. Carbon trumps stainless anything in performance, strength and ease of sharpening. Period.

I like carbon blades, but do have and use some stainless blades too. I do like the character that the patina gives a carbon blade.

I like stainless for flyfishing, steelheading, and duck hunting when everything is likely to get wet at some point. My knives are usually on my belt, so wading does get them wet.

I have never had a issue sharpening my Randalls, but my buddies have noticed that they sharpen theirs more than I do mine during the season. My #23 and #11 really hold an edge, and so does my old #8 (stainless) with popcorn stag (which I gave to my buddy last year).

Alan Grombacher
RKS#5531

Unless a Randall is totally wacked out, my experience has been using a good steel or the Diamond Edge, will bring back a Randall edge almost immediately. Done it many, many times on game and just using them, whether it be carbon or stainless. If you get them real dull, then, I agree, it is difficult, but after obtaining a Warthog sharpener, it is no problem any longer. Once you try one, you will throw rocks at your Landsky.

Pap

I use a Norton professional natural tri stone set. Very handy and works great

I have several carbon blade knives, some several years old. NO RUST SPOTS and the blades look new on most of them. Then I have purchased from others knives like a model #27 or a AG Russell numbered knife that had tiny rust spots or rust cracks in the blade. I doubt if either of those knives were ever used so what is the deal?

Tom Vaught

Is this an April Fool's edition of a knife review?

Judging a Randal #1 All-Purpose Fighting Knife by skewering phone books, chopping wood, using it as a kitchen knife, and even using it to dig holes in the ground?

Surely this has to be a joke-- it is a fighting knife and should be judged on those merits.

Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ

Cliff Stamp is an idiot. He was (may still be) an arrogant self proclaimed knife expert on Bladeforums and KNifeforums until he was banned a few years ago. He would chop rocks and bricks with knives until they broke. A real dumbtard.

I would like to add in reference to pappy's post:
I had zero issues getting that stainless 14 sharp, it was staying sharp that was the issue.

[quote=pappy19]Unless a Randall is totally wacked out, my experience has been using a good steel or the Diamond Edge, will bring back a Randall edge almost immediately. Done it many, many times on game and just using them, whether it be carbon or stainless. If you get them real dull, then, I agree, it is difficult, but after obtaining a Warthog sharpener, it is no problem any longer. Once you try one, you will throw rocks at your Landsky.

Pap [/quote
Pappy, you seem sold on the Warthog. Was there a learning curve using it or was it just a set up and go situation? I've seen pictures of them and was wanting to know if itt leaves any rub marks on the side of your blades? Oldguy

I have posted up in here before, but here's some "new news". Go to my website and check out the Model #21 I just listed. "Not" to buy it. Check out the 3 carbon spots on the trademark side. The knife is brand new. This is simply the nature of Swedish tool steel. It (The #21) has never been used, simply displayed and photographed. (Outrageous orange stag, by the way) Still a full lifetime warranty but I only mention this example as others have talked about their carbon "users" showing no signs of this?? Odd? Every one I use shows signs like this one...not a bad thing, just a fact.
I prefer stainless in 90% of my applicationas. I have and use a dozen or so carbon Randalls and absolutely love them! Stainless, being a Florida boy, has always made sense for me.
Rockwell? I've seen numbers thrown around here but carbon has always acted, performed and sharpened as though it was several points lower than the equivalent stainless product, at least when we're talkin' Randall knives. (Which is what we're doin'...Right?)
Best, Capt. Chris
PS: I've got some new "pickle-projects" to list when time allows)...CCS

Couldn't have said it better myself! Even with really good protectant such as marine tuf-cloth (intended for salt water use) I still get spots or maybe even rust if I use it in snowy conditions or even just a humid day.

Even though it is a dry film protectant/lube it still wears off fast so you are left with a un protected area on the blade and if you put it away for a few hours to enjoy a fire you will have a few spots. As much as I like carbon steel, it sharpens easier, it is tough as nails and is very cool in the aspect that it has been used in Randall knives for 70? years. For me stainless performs just as good, it is just as strong if not stronger and never rusts or stains.

Does anyone even have a 440B Randall that has rusted or stained?

I have beat the snot out of my carbon 18, it's been wet/damp on many outings and occasions. The only thing I have done to retard corrosion is give the blade a soak in vinegar for a patina. I have had no rust issues whatsoever. I even used it extensively in Maine (house was on the beach) with zero adverse effects. I must have a special knife. A little bit of rust in the form or small spots does not hinder performance, looks yes, but not performance unless you let your edge rust to dull. In my experience it takes a lot to get to that point. Total neglect for an extended period. Even then you can bring it back pretty fast with the carbon steel with no special sharpening tools. I have used river rock before.

The performance of RMK's forged 01 Steel is nothing short of amazing. In my opinion of course.

JR3 (Do you have a name you go by?)
Everyone has their favorite choice in steel, except "me". I prefer stainless in Florida and for marine / wet condition work...Period. It just makes sense, "BUT" (There's that word again) , I also know how in the hell to sharpen a knife! I do an excellent job...really! Everyone at the huntin' camp. All of my mates, when I was commercial fishing, to the man, put me in charge of the knife sharpening.
If folks don't know how they need to do one of 3 things:
A) Switch to something soft enough to sharpen
B) Learn how to sharpen properly
C) Don't let your stainless get too dull!
Of the "3"...umber 3 makes the most sense...and not just for stainless. I laugh at the guy who brags about skinng out an elk and still being able to shave hairs from his arm. If you want to shave hairs from your arm...buy a Bic Razor! Keep a nice, keen 17-20 degree edge on your blade...keep it tuned up and you won't care (or know) if you're using stainless or carbon.
With every whitetail that I dress, skin, gut, butcher, etc. I touch up my Randall (or Randalls...sometimes I use more than one) several times. "Keeping" it sharp makes it easy to "sharpen".
Also,JR3(?), you mention vinegar. I pickle all of my Randall carbon users (photos below). Pickling, vinegar, etc. retards the rusting, corroding, spotting process to the point that it is almost non-existant. When you mentioned no spotting on your carbon Randalls at first, you didn't mention the vinegar.
Below are 2 of my favorite Randall "pickled" knives. My #3 and #5, both with 5 inch blades...and "KILLER" stag.
Stay sharp, Capt. Chris

Captain, those pickled knives looked great! How long do you leave a knife in vinegar to achieve that effect?

Thanks to all for their input on this thread. Great information.

John

I use pickle (in the case of the #5 Spanish Olive) juice rather than straight vinegar. I used vinegar once and it caused a bit more rust. The pickle juice does, indeed, rust the blade. Cleaning it afterward removes a good amount of debris and leaves the patina. I have more knives to do and will share that with you as time permits. (It "is" after all huntin' season / new RKCC to work on / Hi-ride project / website / forum attendance, etc., etc., etc.) I have left blades in anywhere from 1 hour to overnight. Start slow and work it! Glad you like it.
It should also be noted that gun bluing is also a rust process and eliminates, or in fact does indeed "retard", rusting of the firearm. Same principle...Mine's just a hair more redneck! Gotta' love it!
Best, Capt. Chris

Even though I have been sailing for knifetalkforum for a while, I never write, but today I was greatly impressed with the Captain Chris Stanaback knives.
I live in Venezuela in the tropics, I have a small collection of about 25 RMK and many of them are made of carbon steel and gives me a lot of work to keep them spotless (I used them frequently) but the idea of putting them in vinegar not only reduce maintenance but give a great looking apperance. Thank you, Roderick.

See there folks...Ya' never know what some redneck, hair-brained idea is gonna' produce! Welcome aboard Roderick! Glad you find this topic, not only interesting, but useful. That's what it's all about.
Thanks, Capt. Chris

lemon juice will also work and it works very fast.

Captain,

I re-read my past post in this thread and realized I got a little condicending, I apologize. With that being said, my name is Matt and I fixed my sig line to reflect that.

You have some great looking Randall's there.

There's always the trick of placing them in a drawer with a few blocks of Camphor.

This may also be useful but I have not tried it yet:

DuPont™ Teflon™ Non-Stick Dry-Film Lubricant

A unique dry-film lubricant that leaves a micro-thin, pure Teflon® fluoropolymer coating. This clean, long-lasting coating repels abrasive contaminants, resists corrosion, and reduces friction and squeaks. Excellent for high temperatures.

Goes on wet to penetrate, then sets up with a clean, dry, white micro-thin coatingNon-staining film bonds to most surfaces Lubricates parts to reduce sticking and squeaking Thin coating is excellent for tight tolerances and sliding tracks Helps materials resist chemical contaminants or water Acts as a protective coating for metal, plastic and rubber. Applications:

Use on surfaces requiring a dry, non-oily, non-staining and silicone-free film Perfect for tight tolerance applications where a micro-film lubricant is needed Chains, gears, cables, bearings, valves, shafts, tracks and slides Hinges, locks, fasteners, sliding surfaces, sealers, blades and bulb threads Electrical switches and connectors Mowers, garden equipment, snow blowers, gaskets, seals, rollers, plastic gears, sleeves, ropes, drive belts and bushings Outdoor power equipment, firearms, fishing, cycling, sailing and marine Cutting blades Gaskets, seals, rollers, plastic gears, sleeves, drive belts and bushings Can withstand temperatures up to 480°F (250°C)

Regards, Neil Tucson, WZ

Welcome Matt,
The "pickle collection" will continue to grow. I have a #21 and a killer-stag Model #25 that need to get "pickled". They both have killer stag. My ultimate pickle collection will have about 20-30 "users", all in carbon, all with my name on them and either a wrist thong or compass (or both)...to be continued.
Best, Capt. Chris

I prefer carbon for all the reasons mentioned above. After use, I either use a little Flitz to clean up the blade or I let it go for a while and enjoy watching the steel come to life. To me, the maintenance of carbon is half the fun. Gives me another reason to jack around with my knives.

What about use on a 1911 .45 (or other firearms)?

I haven't tried it but it should be good on a .45 ;

Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ

No one has mentioned this yet..... but when it comes to 60's and early 70's knives, a "separate S" stamp is much more desirable than a carbon blade. Of course the current stamp is not a separate S.

I don't know what the collector market will be in 2051.....just a thought.

I often wonder what the demand will be like in the future for Randalls. It seems many of the collectors are older, at least on this board. I do not know how many younger people like myself are into Randall knives, I hope it is more than I think!

It's a "lot" more than you think. I have many...many customers in their 20's and 30's. "AND"...If you think Randall collectors are old, attend a "Colt" Collectors Assoc. show sometime. Makes me look like a kid!
Best, Capt. Chris

Thats good news!

Ben,

Give my 11 year old grandson a Model # of an RMK and ask him what page of the catalog you can find it listed on. You will get the right answer. Knows the catalog better than I do. I think that's being "into" them

Sitting with the Capt. at the gun shows and watching the younger generation in there, I believe that they will be into them, just like we were and are now.
Wth the war going on overseas, their interest seems to run more towards the military or tactical styles of knives. But I believe as they mature, and the war winds down it will be interesting to see if they continue along those same avenues.

Hey, I'm only 56 and I love 'em -- pickled or not!

John

I'm not calling everyone old, you are as old as you feel! I truly believe that.

I hope Randall Knives are collected even after we invent the lightsabre! I'll take mine with Border Patrol Green micarta

Hi Capt.!...just received a little pretty Case as Christmas present....it does mean I'm...pretty old???

Although it doesn’t surprise me, it’s good to hear there is a diverse group of Randall collectors -- there will always be a group that appreciates top-notch craftsmanship. Being new-er to this forum, I look forward to meeting some of its members at the Atlanta Blade Show this coming June.

To address the topic… my default is set to stainless.

Welcome abord Jay! I like your signature.

Age is a state of mind.
Period.
I've been skiing with a 79 year old man and bored to death with a 30 year old fart.
...State of Mind!

I sort of like the old SSA so I guess that makes me old. I also like most of the Randall's old or new.

SSA? What is an SSA? I missed something....

Try to place a mirror next to SSA and read it.....mybe it's A**

just my interpretation....

Ronnie,

I'm guessing since the Captain referenced the Colt Collector's Association, Sidney meant to say SAA (Single Action Army) or maybe not.

Thanks Tom...thought we had some new knife I wasn't familiar with.
Mama Mia Guido, thatsa soma kinda funny joka you maka!

Really...?